Help...shifting, clutch, and stalling in gear issues

[bobbysworld86]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm new here and in need of some expertise. I recently picked up an 03 V11 Sport, now has 9700 miles. Here's the scenario;

 

When I bought it up in Salt Lake City Utah, I rode it down to St George (roughly 300 miles), and no issues. Since then, I've gone on multiple rides around town until Fall semester started on Aug 22nd and taken her up to Cedar and back (roughly a 100 mile round trip) for school. The past 3 trips, I wouldn't have any issues on the way up in the mornings, go to class all day, then head back down to St George around 5pm. Sometimes, it's 15 degrees hotter down here in St George than it is in Cedar, so I wasn't sure if the heat was causing this. Anyways, I've noticed some clutch slipping on the past 3 trips about 20 miles from home in the higher gears (5th or 6th). This is also highway with an 80mph speed limit. When I get off the exit, come to a complete stop, I then notice I have to let the clutch out almost all the way until I finally get moving. Today, the first new issue started.....same thing as before, then about a mile from my house I notice: shifting is near impossible, clutch lever doesn't do anything, stalls coming to a stop to turn on my street, wants to jolt forward when I try to start it. So I was able to roll forward to get into neutral at least, get on my street, get her started while in neutral, clutch lever still doesn't do anything, but when I shift it'll go with me already moving. When I pull into my garage, clutch lever still doesn't do anything, I brake, and it just dies. I leave her sit for awhile, jump on the forums to do some reading to figure out what's going on, and I can't diagnose it. I go back out to try and start her up, cranks over, starts for a bit, then slowly gives out and dies. Then I try to crank her up again using a little throttle, but it seems like she's just being starved and struggles. I'll most likely let her cool down overnight and try to start her tomorrow morning to see what she does. I'm real curious if she'll startup normally and "seem" like nothing is going on......I've read about throw out bearings, clutch, shift linkage, springs, and so on. I just can't figure it out. Any help will be greatly appreciated and I thank you for reading the novel haha. Cheers!

 

Josh

[Scud]

Welcome. She's just trying to see if you really love her. Give her some attention and tell her she's pretty.

 

When my clutch went bad, I first noticed it at high speeds in top gears (just as you described). When I changed it, I discovered that the springs were much weaker than the new replacement springs.

 

But don't go to springs yet (that's a big job). Start with some simple stuff, such as:

 

Clutch

• Flush the clutch fluid
• Look at the adjustments on the clutch lever (one will position the lever further away from the handlebar, another will make the actuator stick out farther into the master cylinder

Running

• How old is the gas?
• Basic tune/maintenance: Spark plugs, fuel filter, air filter, valve adjustment, etc.
• Get the basics out of the way, then see what's going on.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Scud,

         Do you think it's the master cylinder adjustment, not letting the fluid back out when released?

Is there an adjustment for that?

[Scud]

Scud,

         Do you think it's the master cylinder adjustment, not letting the fluid back out when released?

Is there an adjustment for that?

 

My first guess is low fluid level - and since it's a new-to-josh bike which probably has been sitting (given low miles) it's good to just flush it (and all the other fluids) to be sure it's full and fresh before trying anything else.

 

I'm not really sure what's going on in inside the master cylinder, but when I put the new clutch in my LeMans recently, it would not disengage the clutch completely. Then I adjusted the lever position and turned in the push-screw. Now when I pull the clutch lever, it completely disengages (like it's supposed to). I think I'll go ride it now and get a pint of Cherry Garcia... 

[Lucky Phil]

Check all the usual stuff from easy to difficult.

 

1.Check the master cylinder is fully extending ( IE the clutch lever doesn't have a lot of free play and is flopping around) the piston may be corroded up and the seals leaking or the holes into the reservoir are blocked. This may have caused the slippage initially and if the seals have now gone or the reservoir holes are blocked may be the reason for the failure to now not disengaging.

Check the fluid level isn't too high.

2. If the master cylinder is ok pull the slave off and check that for leakage or damaged seals which is a whole lot harder.

3. Leave the splitting the engine and trans till last

 

Ciao

[Kiwi_Roy]

As Phil says check the easy stuff first it's very unlikely to be a major problem.

There's a tiny hole in the master cylinder designed to balance the pressure if that becomes blocked it could account for the slip when hot. The lever should have a little bit of play before you feel it starting to build up pressure, if not the hole is blocked, you may be able to see it if you remove the reservoir, about the size of 10 Amp fuse wire.

 

 

Sent from my shoe phone!

[bobbysworld86]

Welcome. She's just trying to see if you really love her. Give her some attention and tell her she's pretty.

 

When my clutch went bad, I first noticed it at high speeds in top gears (just as you described). When I changed it, I discovered that the springs were much weaker than the new replacement springs.

 

But don't go to springs yet (that's a big job). Start with some simple stuff, such as:

 

Clutch

 

• Flush the clutch fluid
• Look at the adjustments on the clutch lever (one will position the lever further away from the handlebar, another will make the actuator stick out farther into the master cylinder

Running

• How old is the gas?
• Basic tune/maintenance: Spark plugs, fuel filter, air filter, valve adjustment, etc.
• Get the basics out of the way, then see what's going on.

Oh I definitely love her for sure, a Guzzi is a bit of a dream bike of mine haha. Would a new clutch make sense for such low miles though? I can look into doing the basic things. The previous owner picked her up last year and didn't ride it a whole lot, but it didn't really "sit" either. What do you all use for mechanical jobs? (manuals, forums, YouTube?) Gas is great, I've filled her up multiple times with as much riding as I've done on her.

[bobbysworld86]

 

Scud,

         Do you think it's the master cylinder adjustment, not letting the fluid back out when released?

Is there an adjustment for that?

 

 

My first guess is low fluid level - and since it's a new-to-josh bike which probably has been sitting (given low miles) it's good to just flush it (and all the other fluids) to be sure it's full and fresh before trying anything else.

 

I'm not really sure what's going on in inside the master cylinder, but when I put the new clutch in my LeMans recently, it would not disengage the clutch completely. Then I adjusted the lever position and turned in the push-screw. Now when I pull the clutch lever, it completely disengages (like it's supposed to). I think I'll go ride it now and get a pint of Cherry Garcia... 

That's what is weird to me though, as far as just a clutch lever adjustment, 'cause she seems perfectly fine for the first ride of the day. It's mainly the trip back in the late afternoon when outside temps are at their highest.

[bobbysworld86]

Check all the usual stuff from easy to difficult.

 

1.Check the master cylinder is fully extending ( IE the clutch lever doesn't have a lot of free play and is flopping around) the piston may be corroded up and the seals leaking or the holes into the reservoir are blocked. This may have caused the slippage initially and if the seals have now gone or the reservoir holes are blocked may be the reason for the failure to now not disengaging.

Check the fluid level isn't too high.

2. If the master cylinder is ok pull the slave off and check that for leakage or damaged seals which is a whole lot harder.

3. Leave the splitting the engine and trans till last

 

Ciao

 

The lever seemed ok, as in a little tension when squeezing, during the first ride of the day. If seals are leaking, where would you see the leak or would you? Haha, yah I'd really rather not have to split the motor/trans after only 9700 miles.

 

As Phil says check the easy stuff first it's very unlikely to be a major problem.

There's a tiny hole in the master cylinder designed to balance the pressure if that becomes blocked it could account for the slip when hot. The lever should have a little bit of play before you feel it starting to build up pressure, if not the hole is blocked, you may be able to see it if you remove the reservoir, about the size of 10 Amp fuse wire.

Sent from my shoe phone!

What would cause it to become blocked? I'll have to snap some pics when I can tear into her.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I may be wrong about the size of the hole, I haven't had mine apart but the hole should be uncovered when the piston is all the way back (lever out) the seal moves further than the hole so it's able to vent any pressure or re-fill with fluid.

 

Sometimes you get a little bit of corrosion in the cylinder, I guess from moisture that could plug it. I had one bike that sat for 30 years the fluid turned to crystals like wet sugar. Fluid is Hydroscopic it will absorb moisture from the atmosphere.

 

Perhaps just start by flushing the old fluid out, pull the lever into the bar, while holding it there open the bleed valve at the rear of gearbox (slave cylinder), you will get about a teaspoon of dirty fluid come out. While still holding the lever in to the bar close the bleed valve then let the lever out this should suck fresh fluid from the reservoir into the master cylinder, Repeat several times until the fluid coming out is nice and clean. Keep the reservoir topped up with fresh fluid to avoid sucking air or you may have more work than you bargained for.

 

It's best to put a ring spanner on the bleed valve (10mm I think) then slip a length of plastic tube on the nipple and into a bottle.

Be very careful not to get fluid on the paint work, it will strip paint off in seconds.

 

The slave cylinder is awkward to get at but I think you can do it without removing the back wheel.

 

Good Luck

[bobbysworld86]

I may be wrong about the size of the hole, I haven't had mine apart but the hole should be uncovered when the piston is all the way back (lever out) the seal moves further than the hole so it's able to vent any pressure or re-fill with fluid.

 

Sometimes you get a little bit of corrosion in the cylinder, I guess from moisture that could plug it. I had one bike that sat for 30 years the fluid turned to crystals like wet sugar.

 

Perhaps just start by flushing the old fluid out, pull the lever into the bar, while holding it there open the bleed valve at the rear of gearbox (slave cylinder), you will get about a teaspoon of dirty fluid come out. While still holding the lever in to the bar close the bleed valve then let the lever out this should suck fresh fluid from the reservoir into the master cylinder, Repeat several times until the fluid coming out is nice and clean. Keep the reservoir topped up with fresh fluid avoid sucking air or you may have more work than you bargained for.

 

It's best to put a ring spanner on the bleed valve (10mm I think) then slip a length of plastic tube on the nipple into a bottle.

Be very careful not to get fluid on the paint work, it will strip paint off in seconds

 

Good Luck

Thank you sir! What do you recommend fluid wise?

[Scud]

I think I understand the symptoms better now - you may have water in the clutch fluid. This would give you normal clutch action when cold, then it could start to boil when it gets hot - causing air bubbles and a lack of pressure. New fluid is definitely job #1. Check the fileshare section of this forum for links to download manuals. 

[bobbysworld86]

I think I understand the symptoms better now - you may have water in the clutch fluid. This would give you normal clutch action when cold, then it could start to boil when it gets hot - causing air bubbles and a lack of pressure. New fluid is definitely job #1. Check the fileshare section of this forum for links to download manuals.

 

You know, come to think of it...I think I did actually hear boiling when I tried to start her up after the struggling startups yesterday. Thank you Scud!

[Antiquar]

The service manual calls for DOT4 brake fluid in the clutch line. 

[bobbysworld86]

The service manual calls for DOT4 brake fluid in the clutch line.

 

Right right, just curious if anyone uses a particular brand.