Shifting woes...

[JesterGrin_1]

Drill Bits. Well if you really wished to go that far you could drill the correct size hole with a good drill bit and just stop short enough to either have or do it yourself by grinding the end of the purposed drill bit to the proper shape to make the bed of the hole correct for the push rod and then use some valve lapping compound to smooth out and mate the two components. But doing this is far easier said than done lol.

 

So if as said that if the current push rod is not a hardened piece then I would size it and or make a new one of the correct dimensions. But as I have not done this I can only go by what I have read and as how I understand it.

[Scud]

Thanks for updating. I hope you get it sorted out. 

[Lucky Phil]

 

Bringing this one back, because I'm finally finding some time to get around to working on this thing. 

 

As was suggested, the receiver for the clutch push rod is smaller on the 5 speed RAM than the original version, but it is a pressed in steel bit. The receiver from the original clutch isn't interchangeable. So I have two options:

 

1. drill out the receiver to the larger diameter

 

2. take the push rod into a machine shop and have the end of it turned down to the right size

 

Thoughts? 

 

RAM 5 speed with pressed in metal insert:

 

 

 

OEM, different and not interchangeable:

 

Whats the dia difference?

Ciao

[craigsinclair]

At the risk of posting the most boring photograph ever, this is the clutch push rod:

 

 

It is already machined down at the actuator end, and unmachined at the clutch end. The OD is 8.0mm except at the end where it's been machined down to 6.0mm. Placing the 8.0mm end into the original clutch and the 6.0mm end into the new clutch I get what feels like the same amount of play, but my calipers don't reach far enough down into the new clutch to actually measure the opening. The machined length of the actuator end is maybe 0.5mm longer than the depth of the hole on the new RAM clutch. I suspect that if I get it machined so that it's symmetrical it will fit in nicely. 

[JesterGrin_1]

 

At the risk of posting the most boring photograph ever, this is the clutch push rod:

 

 

 

It is already machined down at the actuator end, and unmachined at the clutch end. The OD is 8.0mm except at the end where it's been machined down to 6.0mm. Placing the 8.0mm end into the original clutch and the 6.0mm end into the new clutch I get what feels like the same amount of play, but my calipers don't reach far enough down into the new clutch to actually measure the opening. The machined length of the actuator end is maybe 0.5mm longer than the depth of the hole on the new RAM clutch. I suspect that if I get it machined so that it's symmetrical it will fit in nicely. 

 

By the looks of it there would seem to be no problem to make a new one of the correct size and or machine the old one. And Thank You for posting the picture.

[Chuck]

^^^^ Yes, it *appears* to be a no brainer. That means there is probably something we don't completely understand. 

[footgoose]

I'm still curious why the original rod won't fit the original 6 speed clutch hub perfectly, as it came out of the bike. Does the 6 speed hub not fit into the 5 speed clutch at the splines? As has been mentioned, your original should fit into the new clutch and replace the one that came with the 5 speed assembly.

[Scud]

 

As was suggested, the receiver for the clutch push rod is smaller on the 5 speed RAM than the original version, but it is a pressed in steel bit. The receiver from the original clutch isn't interchangeable. So I have two options:

 

1. drill out the receiver to the larger diameter

 

2. take the push rod into a machine shop and have the end of it turned down to the right size

 

 

 

I'm still curious why the original rod won't fit the original 6 speed clutch hub perfectly, as it came out of the bike. Does the 6 speed hub not fit into the 5 speed clutch at the splines? As has been mentioned, your original should fit into the new clutch and replace the one that came with the 5 speed assembly.

 

The concern is not the clutch hub (aka transmission input gear), which the rod passes through. The concern is the size and shape of the contact point on the pressure plate - and how it mates with the forward end of the clutch push-rod. Craig called it the receiver and posted pics of the two - (I quoted the post with the pics, but the pictures don't come along)

 

New rods are cheap - and used ones even cheaper. So getting your original one machined is low-risk - you can always replace it.

 

FWIW - It seems safer to machine the rod. I think there may be a risk of weakening the "receiver" if you drill into it.

[craigsinclair]

 

 

 

New rods are cheap - and used ones even cheaper. So getting your original one machined is low-risk - you can always replace it.

 

FWIW - It seems safer to machine the rod. I think there may be a risk of weakening the "receiver" if you drill into it.

 

 

I suspect there's enough material in the clutch to machine it out, but it seems easier to get the rod machined. It is hardened steel though so the shop is going to get out the ceramic insert for their lathe and turn it down for me tomorrow or the day after. I'm out of town so there won't be any updates for a bit. 

 

Oh, and 35000kms on the original clutch and no signs of cracking. Still, I'm glad I'm choosing to do the replacement rather than having the decision made for me. 

[Scud]

 

 

I suspect there's enough material in the clutch to machine it out, but it seems easier to get the rod machined. It is hardened steel though so the shop is going to get out the ceramic insert for their lathe and turn it down for me tomorrow or the day after. I'm out of town so there won't be any updates for a bit. 

 

Oh, and 35000kms on the original clutch and no signs of cracking. Still, I'm glad I'm choosing to do the replacement rather than having the decision made for me. 

 

 

That's exactly how I felt about my Scura with the same original aluminum flywheel. The worry about the potential breakup made me not want to ride it.

[craigsinclair]

Update...

 

I probably should have taken more photos of the process but there are already a few threads documenting the removal of the engine. I went out the front, removing the engine and leaving the rear end in place. 

 

For the record, the 5 speed clutch replacement kit from MG Cycle is an almost seamless fit as a replacement for the single plate clutch in a 2001 V11 Rosso. I did get the end of the clutch push rod machined down at a local shop and everything engaged as it should. 

 

I found, going through it, 4 or 5 missing fasteners from trim pieces and fenders etc. And the steel bracket that holds the horn in place next to the oil rad had snapped so I welded and repainted it. I replaced the 3 springs in the gear actuator at the same time, because it was easy while everything was apart, and the parts were cheap. 

 

I only had to make one tool, a bit of a wrench/notch type tool that held onto the starter ring so I could undo the bolts holding the clutch on the engine.

 

End result, All the shifting issues I was having are gone. 95% sure it was the clutch that was dragging and causing the transmission to bind when changing gears. Took it for a short test run and it shifted better than it has in years and, with all the bolts replaced and the broken bracket rewelded, no more rattles. 

[Scud]

Thanks for the update. This means that anyone could install the RAM 5-speed unit in a V11 if they have the correct transmission input hub.

 

Good to hear your bike is sorted.

[docc]

Thanks for the update. This means that anyone could install the RAM 5-speed unit in a V11 if they have the correct transmission input hub.

 

Good to hear your bike is sorted.

And the twin plate 6speeder already has the correct hub?

[Scud]

 

Thanks for the update. This means that anyone could install the RAM 5-speed unit in a V11 if they have the correct transmission input hub.

 

Good to hear your bike is sorted.

And the twin plate 6speeder already has the correct hub?

 

 

No - you would need an input hub that was removed from a Scura, Tenni, or RM when somebody did a single-to-dual conversion. The shallower 6-speed hub is no longer available from Moto Guzzi, so that's why RAM stopped making the kits for the 6-speeds. 

[docc]

Would the twin plate clutch push rod have to be altered to use a Scura/Tenni/RM input hub and the RAM 5speed kit?