Starter Mystery

[plexiform]

Relays are original.  Scud you have link for where to buy the Omrons? which ones do you replace? thanks

[Scud]

Here's a post with some more info about the relays.

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19514&p=216995

 

I ended up with a set of 5 new ones that I no longer need and was going to return. Will send you a PM about it.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Of course the starter might have shed it's magnets but I don't think that will cause the fuse to blow.

 

I really don't think Luigi considered the heavy current through the Pull In coil when he selected a 15 Amp fuse, I'm surmising he put his multimeter in series with the spade connector, pressed the start and measured 11 Amps and figured a 15 Amp fuse was adequate. Really it should have a 20 Amp fuse.

Heres what I measured on my EV, same components.

 

TThere's quite a bit of wiring on the EV, I did this test to prove how much better it works when the solenoid current doesn't have to pass through the ignition switch, the current went up by 5 Amps but the time dropped in half.

I have a storage scope but sketching the waveform was quicker. 

The curve on top of the trace is caused by the solenoid plunger movement.

[gatorman]

i need help just bought a 2001 mg v11 Calafornia starter spins but will not engage fly wheel.   bought new starter  d6ra21 does the same thing the gear is being thrown by the solenoid but does not engage the flywheel  this model is fuel injected does that make a difference? i am stumped 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Gatorman, thats a bit of a weird one usually the starter doesn't spin until its engaged, the solenoid has to engage the gear before the main contacts will close.

Have you had the battery out?

Is the battery in backwards, a Valeo starter will turn backwards and not drive, a Bosch doesn't care, it always rotates the same way

I believe the Valeo has a slip clutch that will prevent it driving on overrun or battery backwards.

No, fuel injection makes no difference but the fuel injected bikes have a safety diode to protect the ECU if the battery is connected backwards

[gstallons]

I'm with KiwiRoy  .I made a service call once to a guy w/a Dixie Chopper ZTR mower . He had put a new battery on , the starting motor would spin but not crank the engine .  That is when I found out a permanent magnet starter WILL spin backwards when the battery is hooked up backward . The overrun clutch of the starter drive allows the drive to engage 

 P.S. check the battery polarity . 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Just to confirm the old Bosch style wound field starters always rotate the same way because both the Armature and Fields are reversed.

The Valeo runs backwards because the fields are fixed and only the Armature is changed

Its easy to tell the difference because the wound field type have the 4 screws for holding the pole pieces in place.

 

BTW I have re-named the second coil inside the solenoid the "Grunt coil", it does the Grunt work and you guys might remember it better

The Holding coil 10 Amps and the Grunt coil 40 Amps, don't forget LOL

[gatorman]

hi this is gatorman as you can tell buy the name i repair john deere gators  the starter issue on my bike is very strange. i bought the bike from some one who rode it for a while then had to replace starter. did not run after that has been sitting for about 3 years  looks to me like the 9 tooth  starter gear is hitting the flywheel not going past to engage the teeth would a 8 tooth bendix  be smaller in size so it could past the flywheel to engage

Edited April 10, 2019 by gatorman

[Kiwi_Roy]

I really doubt the starter needed replacing after such a short life, who knows what he stuck on. An OEM starter can't cost too much.

You did check the battery direction?

On re-reading I see you bought a D6RA2, that looks right but I have never bought a new starter

Please double check you have the right battery polarity.

What is the milage on the bike?

Do you mean a VII EV? Bassa or Jackal, all very similar 

[gatorman]

from your drawing i take that negative is ground right?  with the starter out i can ground the case and push the start button and see the bendix fly out the way it should. is their a smaller starter gear? like 9 to a 8 tooth here is the id number of the bike ZGUKDBKD31M131679   I'M LOST

[Kiwi_Roy]

Your starter seems to be one Guzzi use, sorry I don't know if there is a difference but someone will

Any identification of the model at all VII Sport perhaps, can you post a picture, someone may be able to tell by the Vin No but not I

Can you post a picture of the bike?  What mileage has it done?

Feed us a bit more information and we will get you going.

Where are you located, perhaps you are close to another Guzzi owner who could help.

 

Yes Negative is ground.

[gatorman]

i am in bristol connecticut  i will get pictures up this afternoon. the bike has about 32,000 miles. looks great.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Barely run in then, perhaps there is something different wrong.

BTW I think most automotive starters rotate in the other direction, if you look at how the motor sits in relation to the engine the car approaches from the front, the Guzzi approaches from the rear so the slip clutch has to be different, if the previous owner replaced the original with an auto one, can you confirm it's never run since it was replaced?

Has the bike run from a bump start?

Can you confirm the fields aren't loose?

Looking at the front of the crankshaft the Guzzi runs clockwise but looking from the same direction the starter rotates counter clockwise.

 How is the battery is installed?

[gatorman]

with the starter out of the bike it turns and the bendix pushes the gear out .  i have tried now a new starter and the old starter they booth do the same thing in a static test . i think the starter gear is hitting the flywheel the bike came from florida is their a chance that it is from out of country? i read that the bosh starter had 8 teeth not 9 thats all the information i can find on the starter. 

[gatorman]

just tried a test put model clay on the flywheel and installed the starter  the teeth on the starter were bigger than the teeth on the flywheel meaning that the starter gear is to big?