V11 ECU 15RC vs 15M

[dangerous]

well... im back on the band wagon again, trying to get my 04 V11 to run on a open pipe and pods...

now all those I know who have this set up, there bikes run good but they have the 15M ECU, its programable, aparently the 15RC isnt or there are no maps for it...

anyone have info on this?

[Meinolf]

Hi,

 

no difference between the two in regards to programmability. The 15M is better understood, though, and the XDF is much more comprehensive. I am enhancing the 15RC XDF based on my 15M XDF using the source code of both types, but this doesn't have a high priority, my bikes all use the 15M.

 

The only difference in functionality between the M and RC is that the latter supports closed loop operation with a narrow band WBO. Which one is better of disabling anyway, so you could just drop in a 15M. It's a straight replacement

 

Getting rid of the airbox is not good for anything except noise. And tuning the fuel maps in the low to medium load areas is going to be a nightmare. I would't do it.

 

Cheers

Meinolf

[dangerous]

Hi Meinolf, it is my bike that Marty was talking to you about... I only want to do it really for the full cafe look, as you say not worth the hassle even tho I know a few guys whos 11's run well with pods.

[jharvey]

"Runs well" is a relative thing. I run Meinolf's map and recommend settings and it rocks. From my understanding this map was developed with multiple V11 riders all over the place and all kinds of setups. I was worried at first that the fueling would be too much, but it's great. Ends of the cans are a light chocolate brown, bike pulls hard. Stock airbox with snorkels removed.

 

Whilst I have not had it on a dyno yet, in the real world of rolling acceleration it's more than a second faster in all acceleration ranges than stock. Dyno numbers are only good for relative tuning on 1 bike on 1 day only. They are for reference only.

 

If you like induction sound, there is no beating pods. There is a lot of psychological speed in sound anyways...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dangerous]

Well... thanks to Scud I just removed my 15RC for a 15M titanium race... YES what a differance, after 65000k of putting up with the 3k stutter and rough gear changes at 4k... THEY ARE GONE.

 

Now this is with air box in and open pipes.

Next is to perswade Marty to bolt his ecu in with a Meinolf map... and see if there is any more diferance, question for you Meinolf, how do your maps differ from the guzzi tit race map?

 

Then... I will try the differant ecu's with velosity stacks and pods...

[dangerous]

SCRATCH that... Marty just rocked up with Meinolf's maps 41 and 42...

 

Now I did not notice much of a differance with 41 abd it might just be in the head re 42 feeling a bit lighter come resposive.

I have just been seat a the pants dyno riding it up and down the road (country road) but am about to head out for a decet wee spin through some hills.

 

As for the 15RC the laptop still wont read it so dont know what the settings are... does any one know what the std ecu setting is with the co cencor, mines now at 48 which Im thinking is a lot richer than stock.

[docc]

...... does any one know what the std ecu setting is with the co cencor, mines now at 48 which Im thinking is a lot richer than stock.

Aye . . . +48  would be A LOT "richer" than stock. (Factory V11 CO setting is usually in the minus 30 range).

 

Yet, I'm not sure just how much the actual air-fuel ratio is changed with the "CO fuel trim."   

[Meinolf]

Hi Darryl,

 

question for you Meinolf, how do your maps differ from the guzzi tit race map?

 

I've corrected the trim tables for air pressure & temp and engine temperature. Based on this all fuel maps, acceleration map, main and idle ignition maps, ignition retardation following temp/pressure, cold start map and the like were changed based on the AFRs data logging produced and the target AFRs I'm using.

 

Comparing BINs is not a straightforward comparison of one map versus another. So many factors influence the actual opening time of an injector, a value in the fuel map is but a starting point. It goes like:

 

((Fuel Map value x Fuel map value factor) + (CO trim value x CO trim value factor)) x trim factor_airtemp x trim factor_enginetemp x trim factor_airpressure x trimfactor_{batteryvoltage} x trim factor_n = injection time

 

Cheers

Meinolf

[dangerous]

thats cool man, i ask cos im learning... give me a bloody big carb and cdi anyday.

[Meinolf]

Hi Docc,

 

Aye . . . +48  would be A LOT "richer" than stock. (Factory V11 CO setting is usually in the minus 30 range).

 

Yet, I'm not sure just how much the actual air-fuel ratio is changed with the "CO fuel trim." 

 

 

the CO trim value equals  10μs pulse width of the injector (if the CO trim factor is 1), which is added to the respective fuel map value at a given breakpoint. As the fuel map values typically increase with TPS opening and increasing rpm adding/subtracting a constant leads to different results of the influence the CO trim.

 

The fuel map value equals 64μs pulse width, so an increase of one would prolong the injector pulse width by 0.156% (10/64).

 

Translating this into AFR is a totally different game. The pulse width of an injector does not directly translate into AFR, as the current applied to the injector consists of ramp-up, steady, ramp-down and bouncing. During ramp-up the injector flows less at it's not fully opened. With the means at my disposal I couldn't calculate the influence.

 

CO trim was the only method of changing the injection time prior to the development of Beard's GuzziDiag suite. With the capabilities now available CO trim is obsolete.

 

Cheers

Meinolf

[MartyNZ]

...... does any one know what the std ecu setting is with the co trim setting, mine's now at +48 which I'm thinking is a lot richer than stock.

Aye . . . +48  would be A LOT "richer" than stock. (Factory V11 CO setting is usually in the minus 30 range).

Yet, I'm not sure just how much the actual air-fuel ratio is changed with the "CO fuel trim." 

Meinolf said "The CO trim value is not part of the BIN. The value is stored in the EEPROM in the ECU, and that’s not read or written with the Reader and Writer software."

 

So now we know that the previous owner of DD's 15M ECU, before Scud, set the fuel trim to +48. No wonder DD was melting the seal on the "Coaltrack Road Raceway" proving track.   

I still had a 3000 rpm hiccup occasionally with my Ti ECU, even with +15 CO trim, before Meinolf fixed things. So I wondered why DD was so pleased with his new Ti ECU. Now I know.

So now both DD's & my bike have 15M ECUs loaded with Meinolf's #42 .bin file.

My bike has CO trim at 0, standard airbox, & Ti mufflers, and it is behaving well.

DD's bike has CO trim at +48, a shark gill exhaust weird thing that sounds awesome, crossover under the alternator, and intakes are still a work in progress.

I can see another visit to Coaltrack Road coming up for my computer.

[Chuck]

So, Meinolf.. how do I get your map to try on the Mighty Scura?

[dangerous]

So now we know that the previous owner of DD's 15M ECU, before Scud, set the fuel trim to +48.

well hang on... im ginger, speak slower... the fuel trim is set within the ECU and not the map/bin file?

another words #42 dosent have fuel trim but the new ecu I aquired had been ultered . . .

[Meinolf]

Hi Chuck,

 

So, Meinolf.. how do I get your map to try on the Mighty Scura?

 

same as everone else, I'd say. Send me an email or PM.

Cheers

Meinolf

[Meinolf]

Hi Darryl,

 

well hang on... im ginger, speak slower... the fuel trim is set within the ECU and not the map/bin file?

another words #42 dosent have fuel trim but the new ecu I aquired had been ultered

 

following the complete text of the message I send Marty. Does this clarify things?

 

Cheers

Meinolf

 

Re CO trim. The values of CO trim influence the injector opening time, plus values increase and minus values decrease it. But, the changes are not specific to any breakpoint. They are applied across the board. Look at below sample calculation. At the top a base fuel map, then the base fuel map + 10 (CO trim), then the percentage changes of the resulting injection time.

 

The result is a generic change. Now, the entire idea of improving the BIN is to get as many breakpoints to a desired AFR value on both cylinders. CO trim can’t effect this. My BINs are based on CO trim being zero. Using it nevertheless only serves the purpose of adapting a BIN tailor suited to my bike to one with a different setup. I recommend to set the trim to 0 and judge the drivability and economy on the road as you aren’t measuring and logging AFR.

 

The CO trim value is not part of the BIN. The value is stored in the EEPROM in the ECU, and that’s not read or written with the Reader and Writer software. Beard wrote an additional program IAW15xEEPROMTool to read/write the EEPROM. While the CO trim can be set with GuzziDiag, using this tool is easier and faster. The engine doesn’t have to run and reach a minimum temperature.

 

http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/IAW15xEEPROMTool_V0.04.zip

http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/xdf/15M_EEPROM_V1.01.zip