V11 reliability???

[Guest Buck]

Greetings all,

 

Yesterday on a whim I test rode a V11 LeMans. Prior to this I never paid attention to anything Moto Guzzi made, nor did I care. The demo ride was absolutely awesome! I really enjoyed the bike and would like to buy one, however reading some of the posts here leads me to believe the bike is less than reliable with a fair amount of significant problems, like trans oil leaks that require engine removal to fix, broken springs in the trans that strand the rider, failing gauges, intermittent no-start conditions, etc. I know that these things don't happen to everyone, BUT--it sure does seem like there is a disproportionate amount of trouble with MG's among the members here. I see the same thing over at BMWRT.com, but then again I already know that BMW's reliability is legendary.

 

A little about me: I've been riding motorcycles for 29 years, 19 of them on the street. I'm also a Master auto tech with 20 years experience, and I prefer to wrench on my own vehicles. I've owned various Kawahondamahzukis, 3 Harleys (I work for a Harley dealer but don't want another one), and currently I own a 2000 BMW R1100RT, 2001 BMW F650GS, and a '72 BMW R60/5. The RT hasn't been without some problems either, but as a whole is pretty rock solid reliable. The F650GS has been nearly perfect so far, and the '72 is a work in progress. I'm not looking to replace any of these bikes. Instead I am looking for a fun, good handling bike for work transportation and playing in the twisties. The Japanese stuff doesn't interest me because it always seems to have either blinding horsepower (making handling in the twisties difficult for anyone less than a "gifted" rider), feels cheap, or both. The Guzzi felt like an extremely well balanced bike to me. The brakes, handling, and power were all in line with each other and I felt immediately at home on it. I estimate putting up to 10,000 miles per year on this bike and hope to retire my RT to two up riding/longer trips with the girlfriend. Right now the RT is seeing in excess of 15,000 miles per year. The closest Guzzi dealership is 100 miles away, and if the bike is going to be broken alot I really don't need the headache!

 

With all due respect please do not tell me not to pay attention to the mechanical problems posted here, the Guzzi is a "great bike" just because you would like to see another one on the road, okay? Instead I humbly request some real world info from those of you who are really RIDING your LeMans or Sport, putting several thousand (or more) miles on it per year. No offense intended, but if you only ride 1000 miles per year you probably can't give me an accurate picture of the bike's reliability. I will surpass that mileage in the first 2-3 weeks of ownership.

 

Thanks alot!

 

Great site, BTW.

 

Buck

[Guest Buck]

Sorry, I forgot to add that I have a deal worked out to purchase a new '02 LeMans for $11,500 out the door. That amounts to about a $10,600 actual purchase price before tax & such. Is this good or bad? The dealer told me not to even bother to try to get them to discount the bike any further as they were making approximately $200.00 on the deal as it is so far.

 

Also, when drilling out the stock mufflers is a Power Commander and/or retuning needed? Is retuning needed when performing regular maintenance, or only when a driveability problem shows up?

 

Thanks again!

 

Buck

[dlaing]

Buy it!

You are a perfect candidate. Most of the issues are minor, but do count on using your wrench and only going to the dealer for parts and warranty replacement. The bike is a pleasure to work on. The valves are easier to adjust than a BMW. The valves should be checked atleast every 6000 miles. I check mine every 3000 and so far they only seem to slip off .02 mm at the most. The warranty response appears to be variable amongst dealers. Some whine and say, "MGNA never pays us enough for the labor"but most are fine and will pay little attention to things that might invalidate a warranty. I would not recommend a Guzzi to someone who did not like to adjust their own valves etc. unless they were wealthy enough to pay for all the tune ups, etc. My bike has never left me stranded after 15,000 miles, except for the time I ran out of gas. (The only gas station for 10 miles was unexpectedly closed #%#%!)

Is a Power Commander Necessary? No, but it will help any V11 run optimally. The stock mapping is WRONG for all bikes. Not just to lean, but too rich and too lean at different places in the map. Yes you can tune the bike to run well without it. But running well and running optimally are very different.

[RichMaund]

You will see many problems here because forums like these are where people bring their problems to be solved. That needs to be kept in perspective. I have owned 12 Guzzi's over the years. And 12 other bikes of Japanese or Soviet origin. My Honda's have been the most reliable. But they also bored me. Each one was sold because I lost interest in the bike. My Kawasaki's and Yamaha's were great fun and on a par with Guzzi in reliability. Meaning that some stupid stuff occassionally occured that you never see on a Honda. But none of it ever left me stranded. The Guzzi's are almost the most easy to service bikes I have ever owned. Only my Ural and Dnepr were easier to work on. The have proven themselves to be way overbuilt where it counts. Most of my problems over the years have centered around failing cheap electrical components/wiring. Especially on my early 80's Guzzi's. Cheap painted finishes that peel. Guzzi knows how to lay down a beautiful coat of paint, but prep work seems to be beyond them. The newer bikes see to have problems with cheap fasteners that corrode easily.

As a mechanic, I consider these to be very minor problems. I have fun upgrading and personalizing things on the bike to make them better.

Every Guzzi I have owned was sold to me for a bargain price as well. That deal on your Lemans sounds like a good one too. I can tolerate debugging a machine if I got it for a good price.

My V11S has been a blast to run and is easy to work on. Best Guzzi I have yet owned. But it has needed new upgraded relays and oil cooler brackets. It had a bad seal on the transmission. A neutral switch died. I found a bad wheel bearing this week while greasing the drivetrain components. I have had a crack in a sidecover and the starter cover as well even though I carefully mounted them when the bike was new and their grommets were I fine shape. I smeared JB weld behind them and live with the hairline crack in the finish. (I bought the bike new in the crate and prepped it myself for three days. I'm a careful and thorough mechanic and believe careful prep will head off many problems down the road.)

Frustrating? Yep.

Most of it was covered under warranty. All but one thing, the oil leak, was fixed very quickly. Only the oil leak kept it off the road for a while.

Funny thing about Guzzi's... I have never sold one because I was bored with it. Usually a new one gets me so excited I have to sell a old one to afford a newer one. They are easy to become passionate about.

I ride an average of 6 to 12 K miles a year on my bikes. I'm no LD rider, I am very busy working and raising my two teens, but when I tour I regularly ride 400-500 miles a day on back roads. My Guzzi's have been great tools for backroad cruising as well as blasting very fast from point A to B on freeways. They make 80 mph seem like a relaxing walk in the park. Great brakes and handling too.

I have had a love-hate relationship with Guzzi for 11 years now. But it has been 90% love and that makes the hate part easy to forget about.

[profWacko]

I have owned my V11 Le Mans for nearly 14 months now, and it is about to turn over 27k miles. I guess I fit your profile for someone who actually rides his Guzzi. A lot. I commute about 90 miles per day on it.

 

I have had two transmission oil leaks repaired under warranty. One was only the left-side shift cover, the other required removal of the engine which meant that my bike was down for 5 or 6 days. The only other time that my bike was down was while waiting for a rear view mirror damaged in a collision (I got rear-ended by a car at a stop light).

 

The relays that came with the bike have been flawless, and I have had no electrical problems of any kind. That really loud knocking you hear is me banging furiously on the wooden bookcase behind my desk.

 

Based on how you described yourself, I would have to say that you are a prime suspect for future Guzzi ownership. There is something about these bikes that really gets under your skin like no other marque I have ever owned, and I have owned a lot of them.

 

Ride well. Ride safe.

-Jack Price

Glendale, CA

02 V11 Le Mans

01 KTM Duke II

[Guest JohnInNH]

If what you say is true and you wrench on you own bikes...

 

The little "issues" which will come along ya can fix yourself. I'm not a picky owner if I was I could make the dealers life miserable (and mine too). Side covers are cracked by the mounting screws and some other little things. To some people a bubble in the black wrinkle paint is a big deal. I'm grateful It's not for me. Do EXPECT some less than show bike quality.

 

Most of the tranny leaks are because the tranny is overfilled! It WILL leak if it is over filled. It will seek it's own level.

 

If something major happens turn around time may be extended because of lack of parts. I'm STILL waiting on a speedo cable drive. Broke the first 200 miles. I have JB weld and a string holding it together, so it works, but it's BS that it has not been resolved. If you loose a part, like a trip odometer stem, do not expect to see it for months. (my experience)

 

When the clutch goes do not replace it with a stock one. Replace it with a Sureflex Bonded disk. The stock riveted clutch is not the best.

 

The basic V11 sport/Le Mans is a wonderful over built brute. It's no fragile whimpie easy to break machine......

 

Some stuff can drive you nuts. Try to change the main driving light bulb (on the Le Mans) in the shop, then imagine doing it on the road! Also bad hardware. A $10K+ bike with el cheapo fasteners! Absolute BS. I would gladly have shelled out the extra $50 for grade 5 or 8, and Stainless for external Hardware. It's effen stupid to use crap hardware to save $.. GAD!

 

Unfortunately some have had bad experiences. There are bad stories about all brands.

 

I have yet, knocking on wood, had any real issues.

 

Get a Power Commander over at the K+N web site. $149 is a steal! You will not regret it. You WILL need it if you put slip ons. Don't drill em.. Get Mistral's or some other slip on. The base map on the K+N Power Commander is wrong use a Zero map till you get a custom one. Or get a map from some one with a custom map who has similar intake and exhaust.

 

You can not drill the baffle because you can not reach it unless you cut the end piece off. You can drill the end and honey comb the back plate but it destroys the pipe. Some don't care, but I like the ability to go back to stock (for inspections and resale).

 

My Le Mans runs 100% better with the slip ons and Power Commander. I LOVE this bike. I have had 2 HD, 3 Hondas, 2 BMW's, and a British horror story, and with out a doubt the Le Mans is by far the best. ROCK SOLID. Loves to go slow, and really LOVES to go FAST! I can enjoy it at 40-45 MPH just putten along, and as said before on the super slab, cranking miles in a hurry. 4250 and 4650 RPM in 6th is just oh SOoooooo sweet!

 

If you get one... go over it and loctite all the hardware which you can easily remove. You may be amazed how many screws are just finger tight w/o locktite.

 

I believe it's about perceptions and expectations. Just don't expect a perfect bike. Once it's all worked out it should be fine. There are a lot of the new "V11's" out there w/o problems and have happy owners. Compaired to my HD's this is a DREAM!

[callison]

If I'm to believe John Stoddard of MGNA, for the 2002 year, a lot of the case and transmission leaks were caused by the factory painting all of the case bolt holes. A few heat cycles, the paint breaks loose and leaks ensue. Well, maybe. Whatever, for 2003 the factory is apparently making sure that the holes are masked off prior to painting.

 

John pretty much has it covered. Especially the hardware part. I lost an alternator cover and never got the opportunity to determine whether the shop forgot to tighten the cover screws after service or whether they just plain vibrated loose. Now I check them periodically. I haven't had any issues with my 2001 V11S TT, even with the Mistral slip-ons. It runs as close to perfect as any bike I've ever owned. I did depart from stock a tad further this week by buying a set of the bags which are quite nice and last night I ditched the horns and put on the loudest things I could buy. Now it sounds like a truck!!! That oughta make the cagers sit up and take notice...

[jsciullo]

Hey Buck-

Followed you in from Carys site. I purchased my V11 Sport about a year and half ago (2000 - V11 Sport). Everything you have seen posted in response to your question is accurate. The older bikes (like mine) seem to have the most problems as Guzzi sorted out most of the issues on the newer bikes. You will find this site and the MGNOC site valuable. Much like Carys site, there are a bunch of Guzzi "gear heads" to help you on your way. I put 10k miles on my bike last year and it a blast to ride. I perfer it over the RT and the Guzzi Cal Spec Sport that I purchased early this year. The best part about the Guzzi experience is the Guzzi people. These folks are real riders not unlike the RT riders. However, these folks are a blast to be around, no anal rententive BMWeenies and they make you really feel welcome. Not many introverted riders like in the BM crowd. The Guzzi folks are a cross between the Harley real riders and the RT riders. You will see some riders in the no helmet, leather class and you will seem some in full Beemer gear and a lot in between. Your gonna like this decision.

Jim

[Guest Buck]

Thanks for the encouragement folks! Yesterday I bought a Champaign LeMans. I've been working quite a bit, so I've only put a little over 50 miles on it so far. But I must say it's been fun!

 

I can already tell that it will take me some time to figure out how to get comfortable and relax on the bike. It clearly has the most aggressive seating position of anything I've owned so far, and I feel it in my neck and shoulders after about a half hour of riding. This runs contrary to the 18.5 hours and 1085 miles I have logged on my RT in a single day! I'm not expecting the LeMans to provide that level of comfort, but I am hoping to figure out how to make 300-400 mile days relatively comfortable. Any suggestions?

 

Oh-I almost forgot, here is a picture:

 

Buck

[Orson]

Woo hoo!! (Homer Simpson Mode)

 

Nice bike!! Congrats!

 

I've put in 8 to 10 hour days on my stock Tenni with no major aches or pains. Just like bicycle racers developing a butt callous...just get on and ride..the miles will take care of them selves

 

I'm gonna try to attach a pic of my Tenni on the Isle of Skye off the west coast of Scotland in mid July.

[dlaing]

Great purchase Buck, I see your tool chest is big enough!

As for making the bike more comfortable you can read back through the discussions and find alot of good ideas. Some people like to lower the handle bars, some like them raised. Some like the foot pegs moved down and forward and some like them moved back. Some like the stock seat and some like customizing it. Gel grips are a plus. Setting the rear suspension sag properly is important. Not enough pre-load, and you will bottom out pretty easily. Getting the damping right is a bit of a compromise between comfort and control. I don't think the supension has as much travel as your Beemer.

I recommend that you ride it a bit before jumping to conclusions about what ergonomic changes you want. I thought the pegs were too high and forward and then I changed my mind after dragging my foot in a turn. Also I find that they are high enough that I can rest my elbows on my knees when in the tuck position. I used to ride sitting right up by the tank with my knees outside of the cylinder heads, but I eventually figured out that the position gave me too little leverage on the handlebars. Shifting back to the cowling gives me much better ability to counter steer deep into the turn.

It sounds like handle bar raisers might be your first modification.

[Guest scott]

Buck, congrats on the purchase and the price you negotiated. I've had my LeMans since December of last year, and have put over 5k miles on it. I still find it one of the most beautiful looking rolling pieces of art work I've seen!! People flock to see the bike up close.

 

It handles the twisties better than any bike I've owned, but after an hour or so of riding I'm reminded that I am no longer 18 years old. My shoulders ache to the point I'm taking Motrin for some relief. I've hesitated to modify the handlebar position mainly due to high cost. For me, it's not the type of bike I would tour on (I have others for that use). Regardless, nothing puts an ear-to-ear grin on my face like the LeMans.

 

The only modifications I've made to the bike are LeoVince carbon fiber exhaust, and Throttlemeister throttle lock and bar end weight combo.

 

Reliability? This ain't no Honda! Character yes; durable yes; reliable, well the jury is still out. I've had an engine oil leak, a small trany oil leak, numerous bolts needed proberly torqued, and the fuel injection system can only be described as on/off with no in between. Fortunately, I've got a good dealer who stands by the product he sells.

 

Hope your LeMans brings you much joy.

 

 

Jeff Scott

'02 LeMans

'00 Triumph Sprint RS

'00 HD Electra Glide

[Janusz]

Scott, here is my comment about shoulder/arm ache after a longer stint on the bike:

 

This is what happened to me and your experience may be different. Some years ago while riding I did suffer from some of the above aches which I was convinced were caused by me not being very young anymore and/or not optimal seating position. Analgesics did help. Finally I started to consciously make sure all the time that all of my body muscles were totally relaxed.

 

Thats it. That was the only reason of my discomfort. No pain whatsoever ever since. As an extra bonus my riding comfort, style and technique improved enormously.

[Guest Guest_dlaing]

Janusz,

I think you have the right idea. I'll have to give it a try. I have tried lifting weights a little and found it seems to help. Mineral supplements may also help.

There is no reason the body should be in significant pain from the light pressure on the wrist and the vibration.

I came down a twisty mountain road last weekend and found the pain in my wrists to be pretty harsh. I think if I was relaxed it would of been a piece of cake but breaking into the decreasing radius turns was tedious and stressful. I just have to synch an OMMMM MMMMantra with the sound of the Guzzi, and I believe the pain will go away. Does the relaxing technique work for sore butts and stiff knees, too?

[Guest JohnInNH]

My thoughts on aches n pains..

 

I ride ass back on the seat, then I use my legs to help hold some of my upper body weight off my wrists by squeezing the tank with my knees. I also use my stomach muscles to sort of crouch. Experiment in this position. Feel how you can redistribute your weight. In this position put your heals on the pegs as if the pegs were 3" farther forward and see how the weight on your hands changes. So little can do so much.

 

After a while I change position to moving as far forward as I can. This is my riding position while going slow in town. At times I put my left hand on my hip so I can sit upright.

 

Move around. Don't stay in one position for to long. I shift from the up front to ass back position and in-between.

 

If you don't have a tank bag get one. Put your stuff in there. Rain suit etc. When it's full or almost full lay on it. I rest my helmet chin on the forward part of the bag. Quite comfortable. You may have to adjust the amount of stuff in the bag, or put your left hand or arm under your chin to raise your head height position. On the highway I find it very comfortable on long open (little traffic) areas.

 

Stretch your legs every now and again. Also your neck all the way forward all the way back.... Shrug your shoulders, ride with your back straight and lean forward, then crouch. At lights stand and adjust your pants, 'n rearrange your er.. um, manliness. I find my jeans ride up 'n up 'n up. Drives me nuts (bothers them too ) Getting up off the seat lets the blood run back into your buns. On long highway rides stand up on the pegs.

 

Throttlemeister bar ends were a help as this lets you lock the throttle and you can then stretch your wrist, and drive left handed for a bit.

 

If this fails do what I do ... Pharmaceuticals. Ibuprofen, and for prevention that "Move Free" or "TripleFlex" stuff for my joints is amazing. Seriously since I started taking it all my joint pain is 75% better. Gluclosamine 1500 mg +Condroitin 1200 mg + MSM 375 mg 1 tab 2X a day. For about a month till it starts to work.

 

Don't go 500 miles your first time out. Start slow, with progressively longer rides. Build up your body don't break it down.

 

If you find you are aggravating a part of your body you may need to take a break to heal. That's why you should not do to much at first. Learn your limits, and be realistic. If you can't ride more than 3 hours w/o getting fried don't plan a weekend trip which makes you ride 8 hrs a day as a fun weekend will become a painful one.