Zinc additive, ZDDP pros/cons?

[mayormenino]

Hi all,

Apologies in advance for contributing to "dreaded oil" discussions. I could not find direct recs on ZDDP additives to an oil change.

 

I'm planning on changing the oil on my 01 V11 Sport https://goo.gl/photos/pcTxsZ6cCuX6UGiM9. 

 

I understand using higher zinc content oils are required for V11s w/ flat tappet. However I live in California and I can't get shipped oils that have high zinc content such as Valvoline VR-1 20w50 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DJ4FIPQ/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3FR59D7U77AZ7&coliid=I39ES2J0LW74R0&psc=1

 

I was planning on adding ZDDP to the oil change https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006LB9FFI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

to Lucas 20w50 Full synthetic

 

Is it ill advised to add ZDDP? Are there pros and cons to this approach? If this a good idea, how much ZDDP would be correct?

[docc]

I recently gave up on Lucas when they would not confirm their base oil in the 20w-50 product. I suspect it is nothing special. Can you get RedLine 20w-50? If so, I would think there would be no need for an additive . . .

[LowRyter]

any oil rated SG should have enough ZDDP to be safe in your Guzzi.

 

I use the cheaper Castrol 20-50 Actevo motorcycle synth blend, that's about $30 a jug at Cycle Gear.   it's SG rated and has the ZDDP.

[mayormenino]

Thanks for the info. I'll look into Redline for sure but it is a bit pricey though.

 

Aside from using oil with already confirmed high zinc levels, has anyone simply added ZDDP to their oil change? 

[thumper]

I always use 1/2 bottle blue STP due to the old time design of the V11 engine. Push rods and lifters.

A few years back their was a rash of problems with cams and lifters.

Don't know for sure if the STP helps, but have you ever tried to wash it off of your hands?

[mayormenino]

In reference to Lucas - I was eyeing this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009M64D8I/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3FR59D7U77AZ7&coliid=I2THSQBP0SMV6H

20W50 Hot Rod Classic claims high zinc content. targeted at classic cars with flat tappet cams and as such only seems to come in regular and not synthetic

[MartyNZ]

Hi all,

Apologies in advance for contributing to "dreaded oil" discussions. I could not find direct recs on ZDDP additives to an oil change.

 

Is it ill advised to add ZDDP? Are there pros and cons to this approach? If this a good idea, how much ZDDP would be correct?

There is a lot of misinformation available on oil additives. Some ZDDP in the oil is good, but more is not better.

Any good quality oil, changed regularly, along with the filter, will give your engine a long life.

 

Penrite, an Australian oil manufacturer, has a helpful writeup about zinc / ZDDP / dialkyldithiophosphate additive in oil. They begin by saying: "There is a lot of hysteria over zinc levels in oils, especially in the latest specification engine oils. Many of these myths and stories are unfounded. To understand more read the latest up to date information here:"

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/1Zinc%20Myths%20&%20Legends%20Nov%202014.pdf

 

Unless you have found a source of leaded fuel, then you don't need the high zinc levels in SG oil. Leaded fuel had scavenger chemicals added to clean away lead deposits, but unfortunately also cleaned away the zinc protection, so extra zinc was added. This was 4 decades ago, but fuel has changed now, and the active scavengers are no longer used. 

 

You may already suspect that the "flat tappets need SG oil" is built on a myth. Cams and cam followers need lubrication, but not in any different way than overhead cam follower buckets need lubrication.

Poor manufacturing, cheap metallurgy & inadequate heat treatment, are usually the cause of cam follower failures, and there is little you can do to overcome that with an oil additive.

 

There are several interesting write-ups on oil in this forum, everyone has a favourite for their bike, but I don't know of any back to back through life comparison of wear rates of different oils. So pick your favorite,  remembering that cheap oil needs to be changed more often than the better full synthetic type IV or V oils.

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19575&hl=penrite

 

EDIT: Guzziology makes clear statements, and you won't go wrong with Dave Richardson's advice. He says:

1: Use SG rated oil.

2: Synthetic oils are better but not cost effective for frequent oil changes.

3: Any additional additives are bad for your oil performance.

Item 1 is not bad advice, but fuels and oils have improved since SG was a current specification. 

[docc]

A few years back their was a rash of problems with cams and lifters.

AFAIK, this was never an issue with the Sport/LeMans V11 motor . . .

[Chuck]

 

A few years back their was a rash of problems with cams and lifters.

AFAIK, this was never an issue with the Sport/LeMans V11 motor . . .

 

This.

Unless you have found a source of leaded fuel, then you don't need the high zinc levels of SG oil.

 

I respectfully disagree. No less than Dave Richardson told Greg Field to "run SG rated oil in your Guzzi." He passed that on.

That's good enough for me.

[nobleswood]

 

 

A few years back their was a rash of problems with cams and lifters.

 

AFAIK, this was never an issue with the Sport/LeMans V11 motor . . .

This.

Unless you have found a source of leaded fuel, then you don't need the high zinc levels of SG oil.

 

I respectfully disagree. No less than Dave Richardson told Greg Field to "run SG rated oil in your Guzzi." He passed that on.

That's good enough for me.

Dave Richardson has a paragraph in Guzziology specifically on SG rated oil.

[docc]

Does anyone have a source of SG rated oil that is not also rated SH/SL?

[LowRyter]

Does anyone have a source of SG rated oil that is not also rated SH/SL?

http://www.castrol.com/en_us/united-states/motorcycle-oil/4-stroke-engine-oil/act-evo-x-tra-4t.html

 

Catrol Activo Synth Blend Motorcycle oil

 

SPECIFICATIONS

• API SERVICE: Exceeds API SG
• JASO (T903): JASO MA-2

[LowRyter]

oddly enough Castrol V Twin oil

 

http://www.castrol.com/en_us/united-states/motorcycle-oil/4-stroke-engine-oil/power-rs-v-twin-4t.html

SPECIFICATIONS

• API SERVICE: Exceeds API SL

 

looking through the Castrol Motorcycle oils, the full synth is SL.  The conventional and synth blend is SG.   I wonder if I would be just as well of with the conventional oil vs the blend?  And am glad I don't use the full synth for that matter. 

[docc]

"Exceeding " a rating does not rate the oil at that (SG) specification, or make it "better." Making that statement suggests that the oil meets subsequent ratings (SH/SL etc . . . )

[JesterGrin_1]

I always use 1/2 bottle blue STP due to the old time design of the V11 engine. Push rods and lifters.

A few years back their was a rash of problems with cams and lifters.

Don't know for sure if the STP helps, but have you ever tried to wash it off of your hands?

 

 Just as an FYI and not related but STP is a fantastic lube for firearms. A friend of mine has over 60,000 rounds through his competition Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 Magnum. And the rounds are not puff loads lol. I could give you the load if you are in fear of Bears lol.