Scud Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 I've got some electrical problems that are making it hard to enjoy my 2003 LeMans - and I am not riding it at night because of them. Symptoms: Headlight - it flickers, most notably at about 2,000 RPM. It has totally turned off while riding at night on 2 occasions. This was only for a few seconds till it came back on - on it's own - without touching any switches. The headlight is an LED that I got from GuzziTech. I was very happy with it for several months, then noticed the flickering, then the outage. Starting - I have an intermittent hard start. It goes like this - press starter button, just hear a little click and nothing else. Keep holding button in... and then the starter turns slowly and the bike starts. This is probably a 1 in 10 experience. 9 times out of 10 it starts like it should (and starter turns faster). Electrical system is totally stock except for: 30-amp Maxi fuse holder Battery tender cable LED rear turn signals Speedhut gauges LED Headlight Omron 5-pin relays in all 5 positions Battery is Odyssey PC545, less than 2 years old. Docc sent me some battery "homework" and here are the results: Key off (hadn't run for 3 days, and before that only one short errand in the previous 2 weeks): 12.6v Key on after about a minute with headlight on: 12.0v During cranking: 10.8v At about 1,250 RPM idle: 13.8v Af 2,000+ RPM 13.9v FWIW - I started it 5 times during my little homework assignment just now - and it started perfectly every time. Of course, it doesn't misbehave while I'dm trying to diagnose. It seems like I should replace the headlight with a standard unit, and clean up all the wiring harness connections... but I'm still not a proficient electrician. What else, and in what order, would you electrical counselors recommend?
docc Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 oooh, IDK . . . . but, 12.6v is too low to expect your V11 to charge it happily. *Condition* your AGM battery when it drops to 12.65v (85%) charging with at least 6 amps to 14.8v. Gosh, it would be nice if it charged at 14.2 volts . . . *Always* discharge the battery before charging or starting (turn the lights on a couple minutes). This has been a hard procedure for me to swallow, but there you have it. Discharge before doing anything (start or charge).
MartyNZ Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 The ignition switch, feed to fuses F4 & F5, and battery terminal connections, & grounds, could be the source of both problems. After that, you may be chasing two separate faults. I'd check your relay bases, if you haven't already done this, see Kiwi_Roy's helpful guide here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15718&hl=%2Brelay+%2Bbase+%2Brepair The safety switch (clutch) bullet connectors under the tank give trouble, so cleaning and gooing them may help if the start relay coil voltage is low from connector resistance. Wriggling wires to make the headlight fail may lead you to the problem. Otherwise, when the headlight next fails, see if the horn and brake lights have failed at the same time. If yes, then check LH switch cluster, 10 wire plug to it, light relay (swap with another), and light fuse connections. Good luck.
czakky Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 +1 on the ignition switch. Take it apart and hit the contacts with a good contact cleaner. Grease with your favorite electrical grease I.e. Vaseline, dielectric etc. Like Docc said the charging system doesn't sound 100%. Probably separate issue.
Chuck Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 A Distinguished Previous Owner of a non running Strada I bought thought it was a good idea to put dielectric grease in all electrical connections. Naturally, it never ran again. Dielectric means, "does not conduct electricity." Another guy bought it, couldn't get it running and sold it to me after buying a $$new$$ unneeded Digipex unit. Wayne Orwig posted a long explanation of why not to use it. It included migration inside relays (!!) among other things. He says the only place to use it is spark plug boots. 1
czakky Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 The ignition switch definitely needs some lubrication. I don't use dielectric grease personally but yes it is non conductive. Otherwise you'd be shorting everything. But exposed metals corrode and lose conductivity too..... 1
docc Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 I was fortunate to hear Wayne explain this in person. OMRON also warns against operating relays in the presence of silicone (gas) which is apparently formed when dielectric grease heats. Wayne led me to think of it as applying a layer of glass to the contacts.Silicone grease is good for brake parts according to gstallons!
gstallons Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 You will have to Wiki the word dielectric to see what it is / does .
Scud Posted February 3, 2017 Author Posted February 3, 2017 Gave it an 8amp AGM-mode charge with a BatteryMinder charger. Had a weak starter engagement, followed by a good one that worked. Headlight still flickering. Rode to work... makes Friday a little more fun... been commuting exclusively on the BMW lately. Anyway - I cleaned and lubed (with vaseline) the ignition switch and starter button a few months ago, that didn't make any noticeable difference. I'll chase down the other ideas this weekend. I have these parts available: New electrosport ESR515 voltage regulator Complete new headlight (the one on the bike is cracked) And Docc - you mentioned it would nice if charging was at 14.2. Is that because that's what the Odyssey specifies - or because that's what the V11 is supposed to produce?
bbolesaz Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 Being new to Guzzi land I cannot profess to be an expert. However, my Scura was starting similar to what you describe. I put in a new AGM battery and all is well with the world. I think I read in another thread that the starter uses a 2 step relay and the current draw is very high for a very short period of time. I speculated that the battery wasn't able to provide this high current and the starter never completed the 2 step. I don't think you would see the voltage drop during the high current on a digital multimeter because it happens too fast.
MartyNZ Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 On the topic of ignition switch faults, the soldered joints to the wiring can break, but still touch, making an intermittent connection. Vibrations could make or break the connection. See Walterg's experience with this here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18953 See also Chuck's experience here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18606&hl=%2Bbroken+%2Bignition+%2Bwire The comments on wiring loom strain relief are valuable advice. 1
MartyNZ Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) A Distinguished Previous Owner of a non running Strada I bought thought it was a good idea to put dielectric grease in all electrical connections. Naturally, it never ran again. Dielectric means, "does not conduct electricity." Another guy bought it, couldn't get it running and sold it to me after buying a $$new$$ unneeded Digipex unit. Wayne Orwig posted a long explanation of why not to use it. It included migration inside relays (!!) among other things. He says the only place to use it is spark plug boots. Sorry mate, but it is time to gently euthanize that story. I have the greatest respect for your expertise and achievements, but you have been misled. Wayne Orwig needs to explain why he has the "facts", and aircraft, auto, and boat manufacturers have been fooled for the last 70 years. Even those little squeeze together wire connectors for lawn irrigation valves use silicon dielectric grease to keep moisture out, and still allow a good electrical connection. . The best examination of the benefits of silicon dielectric grease is here: (link edited) https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm&ved=0ahUKEwjWxZrynPfRAhXGo5QKHUD7Ac0QFggYMAA&usg=AFQjCNHwibqeA9xoggY2S8AvFyuRQxLNQQ There is a lot to wade through, but this guy explains the relative merits of insulating grease, "conductive" grease, and vaseline in a better way than I could. Sure he has an electronics perspective, but connector corrosion is the same for them. My bike has Dow Corning DC-4 silicon dielectric grease in every electrical connection except switches since early 2015, and does not have any electrical faults. I agree that DC4 would be bad for inside switches & relays where an electric arc can happen. For the switches, I used Lubriplate DS-ES. It is a thin grease designed for electrical switches just like our ignition switches. Relays I try to keep dry from both water and grease, except for DC4 on the terminals. I see that some relays have little vents near the bottom that I try to keep clear. Sorry to be a grump, but it pains me to see people who live in wet/humid climates continue to have electrical problems due to corrosion in connectors, when the use of the right product would prevent these problems permanently. Edited February 4, 2017 by MartyNZ 2
gstallons Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 LubriPlate DS-ES ....I need to get some . Uh $112.00 for 1 1/2 oz. tube on Amazon ? Mmmmmm . I will see about this .
gstallons Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 LubriPlate DS-ES . Sorry , that was $112.00 for 36 tubes .
MartyNZ Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 LubriPlate DS-ES ....I need to get some . Uh $112.00 for 1 1/2 oz. tube on Amazon ? Mmmmmm . I will see about this . US$5.18 + shipping direct from Lubriplate https://www.lubriplate.com/Online-Store/1-75-oz-tubes/DS-ES-1-75-oz-tube.html
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