Sounds like someone loaded marbles into a cement mixer - 2000 V11 Spor

[vbares]

Subject: 2000 V11 Sport, 16k miles

 

I bought it 4yrs ago with 1800 miles on it. From 1,800 to about 15,400 miles - the clutch has been quiet. Albeit, never very easy to shift smoothly - always felt a bit violent at the end of the clutch lever travel. I've kind of been suspicious of old pressure plate springs getting soft possibly?

 

However, for the last bit, its been getting chattier and chattier.

 

Especially when cold, it sounds like marbles in a cement mixer.

 

I've read several threads here stating that this is normal, don't worry about it. But, dahyum, its a pretty loud clatter!

 

It's winter now and as soon as I finish with the daily drivers (cars) and the rally car, I can turn my attention to the bike.

 

From my reading, inspecting the clutch requires removing the motor from the bike - not something I want to do, but if need be...

 

How do I determine what the root cause of the noise is ?

[andy york]

Hi 

With the engine running pull the clutch in. Does it get quite? diminish ?

Then release the clutch ....marbles back ? 

all is ok would be my guess.

120k on mine and I still have material left on the discs... there are 2 of them.

Unless it was really abused.

As for shifting, keep the fluid changed and use a good grade of whatever snake oil you 

prefer. I use Sheaffers  synthetic myself. I'm sure others will chime in on the snake oil.

There is a lot of stuff riding around on a splined hub that rattles like crazy sometimes 

keep us updated

andy

 

[vbares]

Thanks Andy.

 

It does diminish when pulled in.

 

Not abused AFAIK. Don't tend to slip the clutch much, no wheelies here

 

Hmm, I'd not thought about refreshing the hydraulic fluids for both clutch and brake - probably a really good idea! (Although I think you meant transmission oil, which was refreshed 15k ago - probably time for that as well).

 

Perhaps I'll make a recording of the noise (and level) and get some feedback -  I looked at the service manual, and sure, there are a number of disks riding on that spline...but assuming they work like a car clutch does, the pressure plate, with the clutch in normal position, presses everything together - there really shouldn't be any play ??? Pulling the clutch lever, presses on the pressure plate springs, which 'loosens' everything up...I imagine this clutch works very much in the same manner, except there are 2 friction disks...so a little miffed as to why it get quieter when pulling the clutch in?

[Lucky Phil]

No doesnt really work like a conventional automotive clutch. These have lots of toothed plates spline interfaces that are dry and wear. A car clutch has only the friction disk spline to gearbox input shaft spline to rattle around. Even with the clutch engaged and the plates clamped together the drive plates can still rattle around in the flywheel. Thats why when idling and it sounds a bit rattly if you pull and release the clutch quickly they quieten down a little as the plates re-orientate themselves in the splines.

 

Ciao  

[vbares]

Went back and looked at the manual a bit closer as well as a dry clutch video - let me see if I have the workings right:

 

The flywheel, bolted to the motor output shaft, is basket-like, with teeth.

There are 2 friction discs, and 3 non friction discs (includes the outer disc that I assume connects to the starter).

 

Friction discs have teeth in center of disc - these sit on the transmission shaft.

Non-friction discs have teeth on the outside edge - these mesh with the flywheel.

 

Pull the clutch, friction discs don't spin (assuming rear wheel is stopped), but the non friction discs do.

 

I would imagine that the 'intermediate' disc ("F" in the manual) would have the opportunity to bang around significantly as the teeth wear - but the indication is that if you pull the clutch momentarily - the discs have the opportunity to re-align ?

 

In neutral, with everything compressed together, there would have to be play on the transmission shaft splines (between the friction discs teeth and the shaft splines) and/or on the flywheel teeth/splines to make a clatter - is that really where the wear is and the source of the noise?

[andy york]

That about sums it up ....cept 

Flywheel bolted to crank...teeth around the inside perimeter

   push rod cup goes in center of flywheel

spring plate...10 springs around the circumference / horizontal to the "vertical mounting "spring plate "

  springs have to fit in "holes" on the flywheel and spring plate

  teeth on the outer circumference 

clutch disc 1...teeth on the inner circle to mesh with input shaft hub

intermediate plate .... teeth on the perimeter

clutch disc 2 ....same as 1

Ring gear for starter...bolts to flywheel / also used as pressure plate ?

so there are just 3 pieces that have the ability to rattle.

andy

[thumper]

At about the same miles my clutch friction plates came unglued, bonded. Sounded louder and the clutch did not act the same.

Some times it would not fully disengage and acted odd when engaging.

If this is what you got, new clutch time.

[footgoose]

At about the same miles my clutch friction plates came unglued, bonded. Sounded louder and the clutch did not act the same.

Some times it would not fully disengage and acted odd when engaging.

If this is what you got, new clutch time.

 

 

was it the stock clutch plates?

[thumper]

Yes it was the oem clutch. Curtis at Harpers got all the parts together, great guy!!

The oem was only bonded not riveted and the bonding failed.

Learned a lot about a moto guzzi on the clutch replace, we are now one.