docc Posted March 14, 2017 Posted March 14, 2017 I've never seen a V11 gearbox pulled like that. "Semi-crabbed?" is semi-crabbed better or worse? The way it is done (in your photos) takes the least number of things apart, so probably the best way to do it when dollars are by the hour, or time is of the essence. It doesn't look like the motor was lowered, even. So, it seems it would be tight getting everything in and out. Not sure why the battery is lifted out? Maybe the guy has never done this on a V11 before, so his mind is not clouded by *conventional wisdom* and really has found a great way to get the gearbox out&in with minimal wrenching? Some guys have a knack for that. That there are no hammers in view is either cause for suspicion or a sign of brilliance . . .
Scud Posted March 14, 2017 Posted March 14, 2017 Maybe the guy has never done this on a V11 before, so his mind is not clouded by *conventional wisdom* and really has found a great way to get the gearbox out&in with minimal wrenching? Sign of brilliance . . . Yes, rather clever. The only thing connecting the rear wheel assembly to the frame is the brake line. I would not have thought it possible to get the tranny out without at least somehow disconnecting the engine from the frame.
Lucky Phil Posted March 14, 2017 Posted March 14, 2017 Maybe the guy has never done this on a V11 before, so his mind is not clouded by *conventional wisdom* and really has found a great way to get the gearbox out&in with minimal wrenching? Sign of brilliance . . . Yes, rather clever. The only thing connecting the rear wheel assembly to the frame is the brake line. I would not have thought it possible to get the tranny out without at least somehow disconnecting the engine from the frame. He will need to be careful getting the swingarm pivots threaded back in without stripping the threads, mine are very fiddly without all that wheel and stuff hanging on to the arm Ciao 1
LowRyter Posted March 15, 2017 Author Posted March 15, 2017 I've never seen a V11 gearbox pulled like that. "Semi-crabbed?" is semi-crabbed better or worse? The way it is done (in your photos) takes the least number of things apart, so probably the best way to do it when dollars are by the hour, or time is of the essence. It doesn't look like the motor was lowered, even. So, it seems it would be tight getting everything in and out. Not sure why the battery is lifted out? Maybe the guy has never done this on a V11 before, so his mind is not clouded by *conventional wisdom* and really has found a great way to get the gearbox out&in with minimal wrenching? Some guys have a knack for that. That there are no hammers in view is either cause for suspicion or a sign of brilliance . . . I doubt if he's ever torn down another Spine Frame despite working on Ducatis, Guzzis, classics and customs. I would guess that 2/3 of the world's population that have taken a spine frame apart more than once are connected to this board. Me not being one of them. All I know is that he called me at 6 pm on Saturday evening and asked if I wanted him to tear it down. Then I get to his shop on Monday morning around 11 am and you see the photos with everything apart and he's already ground down the gear box housing and has it apart. He's also been invited to show his Sporster Cafe racer (painted red frame, no shit) at COTA Moto GP. He's one a few shows with his custom Ducatis too.
Midle Age Warrior Posted March 15, 2017 Posted March 15, 2017 Hi guys I have been very busy working on a few things at the same time, V11, GS, wife car and some surgical procedure to my daughter beside regular things, that is why my V11 progress is so slow. The welder could not made the job this weekend but that give me more time to prepare the piece to be weld. LowRyter you said The transmission is apart and he'll bake all the fluid out of the offending piece and weld it. What do you meant with bake, if I can do to mine in order to have a better result I wold like to try it and if you finally fab the reinforcement to hold the gearbox wold you share the schematics of the piece in order to be reproduce it here in Venezuela. As the time goes by and seeing the your bike disassembled I think I must speedy up mine since I relay on my memory to put her together again I will keep you updated of my progress when I have any
LowRyter Posted March 15, 2017 Author Posted March 15, 2017 MAW- baking the part, meaning heating it in a hot oven to dissipate all of the oil out of the part so the welder can make a good weld.
Chuck Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 MAW- baking the part, meaning heating it in a hot oven to dissipate all of the oil out of the part so the welder can make a good weld. Actually, there is more to it than that. There is a thermal shock element, I think. At any rate, baking before welding is a better than good idea.
Lucky Phil Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 MAW- baking the part, meaning heating it in a hot oven to dissipate all of the oil out of the part so the welder can make a good weld. Actually, there is more to it than that. There is a thermal shock element, I think. At any rate, baking before welding is a better than good idea. That's somewhat true Chuck, more the mitigation of distortion though I think. The lesser the heat gradient during welding the less distortion. My friend that has vast experience welding Ducati cases showed me how after welding near the main bearing bore the hole became somewhat out of round. The solution?......a hammer and small steel drift and peen around the cases internally adjacent to the main bearing bore and weld and presto tension forces released and bearing bore round again. I have used the clean the cases and warm them up to locate cracks before. The oil will seep out of the crack and is faintly visable. Dye check is way better though. Dont know where the l/h lug crack originates but I do know it has a flat face machined on its outer face with no real radius on it. Anyone confirm if this is where it cracks or is it where the lug joins the main case? Ciao
LowRyter Posted March 16, 2017 Author Posted March 16, 2017 MAW- baking the part, meaning heating it in a hot oven to dissipate all of the oil out of the part so the welder can make a good weld. Actually, there is more to it than that. There is a thermal shock element, I think. At any rate, baking before welding is a better than good idea. That's somewhat true Chuck, more the mitigation of distortion though I think. The lesser the heat gradient during welding the less distortion. My friend that has vast experience welding Ducati cases showed me how after welding near the main bearing bore the hole became somewhat out of round. The solution?......a hammer and small steel drift and peen around the cases internally adjacent to the main bearing bore and weld and presto tension forces released and bearing bore round again. I have used the clean the cases and warm them up to locate cracks before. The oil will seep out of the crack and is faintly visable. Dye check is way better though. Dont know where the l/h lug crack originates but I do know it has a flat face machined on its outer face with no real radius on it. Anyone confirm if this is where it cracks or is it where the lug joins the main case? Ciao I am pretty clueless what you asking about. Perhaps the photo doesn't answer your question.
Chuck Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Well, it *looks* as if it might be right in the corner, but IMHO, isn't ground out enough yet.
Lucky Phil Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 MAW- baking the part, meaning heating it in a hot oven to dissipate all of the oil out of the part so the welder can make a good weld. Actually, there is more to it than that. There is a thermal shock element, I think. At any rate, baking before welding is a better than good idea. That's somewhat true Chuck, more the mitigation of distortion though I think. The lesser the heat gradient during welding the less distortion. My friend that has vast experience welding Ducati cases showed me how after welding near the main bearing bore the hole became somewhat out of round. The solution?......a hammer and small steel drift and peen around the cases internally adjacent to the main bearing bore and weld and presto tension forces released and bearing bore round again. I have used the clean the cases and warm them up to locate cracks before. The oil will seep out of the crack and is faintly visable. Dye check is way better though. Dont know where the l/h lug crack originates but I do know it has a flat face machined on its outer face with no real radius on it. Anyone confirm if this is where it cracks or is it where the lug joins the main case? Ciao I am pretty clueless what you asking about. Perhaps the photo doesn't answer your question. If you follow the face of the lug ( the machined face where the frame member clamps onto) down towards the body of the case from the rounded top there is a small step created by the process of machining the face flat. It then steps out to a wider cast step ( where your fingernail appears to be resting) and then again to the main body of the case. Is the cracs origin at the first small ( maybe 2mm wide) step caused by the machining the lug face? Ciao
LowRyter Posted March 16, 2017 Author Posted March 16, 2017 the crack is about 2 inches long in the area that is ground down. Beyond that I don't know. The piece was sent out to the powder-coater to get baked. They're running it through some heat cycles. I likely won't see it until it's welded and being fitted into the bike. Then Don (mechanic) will make a template and cut out the bracket.
LowRyter Posted March 23, 2017 Author Posted March 23, 2017 well..... went by the shop today. The transmission case looks pretty bad. It's hard to weld because it's so porous. Basically the bottom side has a hairline crack in about 1 inch curve. The outside is pretty ugly. Don said he expects to finish welding it and will clearcoat the case since the casting is so porous it will be less likely to stain (like that's my big worry). Maybe it will be done next week. Don is confident and I am hopeful. Anyway, the bellhousing bracket. I get 5 for the price of one. Anyone that wants one, the price is $60+ shipping. It will be aluminum and will be waterjetted from the template off my bike. Since it's aluminum it will match the engine and won't need to be painted. So if you want one and to help me defer the cost, let me know. It's no deal breaker for me either way but I hope that this benefits a couple of us here as well as me. I'll make a note in the other thread. http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1797&p=218300 2
Scud Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 Sounds like good news. And you'll have a cool scar on your transmission.
docc Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 When my case cracked, I felt really good about adding the frame brace. ~80,000+ miles later . . . Still happy about that. Do it, ya'll !
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