V11 vs. Sport 1100

[swooshdave]

Does anyone have information about what changed between the earlier Sport bikes (for example the 98 and later) and the V11 series? They went from 1100 to 1200, I think. Is the  engine completely different?

 

Thanks!

[fotoguzzi]

the 1100 Sport  has the clunky 5 speed.. the v11 Sport/LeMans has a sweet 6 speed.. both have 1064cc motor.. CPU also different.

[docc]

Agreed, same 1064 motor. The earliest '95-'96 Sport 1100 was carbureted while the 1100 Sport ('96-'97) was injected (with a different computer as fotoguzzi says) and the cast frame sideplates "porkchops"   (stilettos!) as on the V11.

The First Generation V11 (1999-2001) has shorter frame and steeper fork rake than the previous 1100 Sports.

Seems the Guzzi "Sportbike" for '98 was the Centauro and that is a completely different animal!

No 1200 until the 1200 Sport of 2007.

[Scud]

Centauro a sportbike? Can we call it a Power-Cruiser instead?  But it was a spineframe, so I assume it handles similarly to the Sports and V11s.  People who like 'em really like 'em.

[Chuck]

Centauro a sportbike? Can we call it a Power-Cruiser instead?  But it was a spineframe, so I assume it handles similarly to the Sports and V11s.  People who like 'em really like 'em.

I put 42000 on mine. The WP suspension was quite good, engine was a sweetheart, if high maintenance. 

[swooshdave]

the 1100 Sport  has the clunky 5 speed.. the v11 Sport/LeMans has a sweet 6 speed.. both have 1064cc motor.. CPU also different.

 

So different bodywork, gearbox and CPU. I haven't yet found out why the V11 (any) where called V11.

 

I've also heard that the Aprilia ownership was both good and bad for Guzzi. Prior to Aprilia is seems Guzzi was under some financial distress and that may have manifested itself in to some questionable quality. Not that one doesn't expect a certain level of quirkiness with any Italian brand.

 

I'm mostly wondering if this forum sees the Sports as totally different models or if they have enough commonalities. They are certainly related!

[docc]

Let's call them all Spine Frames, so that makes them more brothers than cousins!

 

The different V11 gearbox and frame/geometry transformed the handling nature. Some like(d) it, but a lot did not. Hence the "LongFrame" V11 of 2002-2005(6?) among other changes to tame The Twitchy RedFrame Beastie.

 

The V11 introduction and design was prompted by Aprilia magnate, Ivan Beggio, hearkening (marketing?) to the 1970s V7 Sport heritage while designer, Luciano Marabese, penned the design as an homage to the 1946-52 racing Gambalunga/Gambalunghino using the frame modifications and 6peeder gearbox from the ripened fruit of the days of (DeTomaso's) Dr. John Wittner.

 

Wittner was quoted as saying that the 6speeder gearbox was more about rotating the "polar moment of inertia" than actually needing another cog. This is a technique he found success with in endurance racing with earlier Moto Guzzi designs. (see "Moto Guzzi Big Twins", Greg Field, 1998, MBI Publishing)

 

Quite notable that the new V7-II has a redesigned gearbox to rotate the driveline to take advantage of this "polar moment of inertia" business.

 

EDIT/ December 21, 2018. Upon ScooRoo questioning who asked for the V11 sport design, I re-read the Anima Guzzista interview (translation) and discovered this statement by Luciano Marabese:

 

" . . . the V11 is a motorcycle born from evening to morning. I swear to you. It was my idea,

presented [in] Guzzi

without being requested."

[docc]

And, hey, if we're dropping big names, let's  make sure Tony Foale gets the credit for the Spine Frame itself:

[fotoguzzi]

Let's call them all Spine Frames, so that makes them more brothers than cousins!

 

The different V11 gearbox and frame/geometry transformed the handling nature. Some like(d) it, but a lot did not. Hence the "LongFrame" V11 of 2002-2005(6?) among other changes to tame The Twitchy RedFrame Beastie.

 

 

perfectly stated..

 

you need gorilla arms to fit the sport 1100, 99-01 early red frame was twitchy as stated, it surprised me when I rode one while owning an 02.. the 02 and on were the perfect all day ride..with a little personal touch like bar risers.. some like lowering the pegs..

 

[68C]

And, hey, if we're dropping big names, let's  make sure Tony Foale gets the credit for the Spine Frame itself:

Love the Tony Foale frame, never seen it before, I cetainly did not know he was so involved with Guzzi racers.

 

I have a set of Tony Foale leading link forks that I believe were were for a T3 sidecar set up with the name proudly cast into the disc caliper mount arms. At the moment the lower section is fitted to my Triumph 900 outfit using homemade down tubes.

[Chuck]

 

 

you need gorilla arms to fit the sport 1100, 99-01 early red frame was twitchy as stated,

I'd say you need gorilla hands for the 1100 Spot.. but twitchy is a matter of degree.   The early V11S turns in a *little* faster, but nothing like the Monza or Lario.

2016-08-18_02-45-05 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr

[swooshdave]

Let's call them all Spine Frames, so that makes them more brothers than cousins!

 

The different V11 gearbox and frame/geometry transformed the handling nature. Some like(d) it, but a lot did not. Hence the "LongFrame" V11 of 2002-2005(6?) among other changes to tame The Twitchy RedFrame Beastie.

 

The V11 introduction and design was prompted by Aprilia magnate, Ivan Beggio, hearkening (marketing?) to the 1970s V7 Sport heritage while designer, Luciano Marabese, penned the design as an homage to the 1946-52 racing Gambalunga/Gambalungino using the frame modifications and 6peeder gearbox from the ripened fruit of the days of (DeTomaso's) Dr. John Wittner.

 

Wittner was quoted as saying that the 6speeder gearbox was more about rotating the "polar moment of inertia" than actually needing another cog. This is a technique he found success with in endurance racing with earlier Moto Guzzi designs. (see "Moto Guzzi Big Twins", Greg Field, 1998, MBI Publishing)

 

Quite notable that the new V7-II has a redesigned gearbox to rotate the driveline to take advantage of this "polar moment of inertia" business.

Can you bolt the 6-speed on to the pre-V11 sport bikes? That will really tell you how related they are.

[docc]

I don't know of anyone who has tried that, but they're the same engine block, yes?

 

I suppose it's worth mentioning that the V11 came with a hydraulic clutch (cable actuated in the earlier Sport 1100), and the shaft and rear drive of the V11 differ. Apparently, the gearing of the V11 is different as well.  Still, I suppose it safe to say they (the V11 and the 1100 Sport) have more in common than not.

 

My "twitchy" comment about the short RedFrame is a bit tongue-in-cheek.  Sure, they do handle differently, quicker if you will, and are perhaps more needing of the basic suspension set-up and tire selection.  The very, very earliest V11 Sport was reportedly fitted with 1/2 degree steeper triple trees which would certainly contribute to some "handling challenges."

[swooshdave]

I've got my Triumph posted in a few places. As soon as that goes I'll get more serious about the V11.

[docc]

Good luck on the Triumph 4sale, swooshdave!

 

In the meantime, consider getting the book Moto Guzzi Big Twins by Greg field. It will offer you a wonderfully well researched education on the Guzzi big twins with interviews of the engineers (Carcano and Todero) as well as extensive interviews John Wittner.

 

It is the single best source I've read on the subject. For the entire history of Moto Guzzi since 1921: Mario Colombo!