Oil pressure during cranking (first start jitters!)

[Craig]

OK,  Everything is finally back together after my oil catastrophe last year and I have convinced myself I am ready for the first start.  I hate this part.  You can understand my concern about oil pressure.  Everything sounds fine while I am cranking but I can't get any oil pressure.  

 

1. I am cranking the engine to try to get the oil pump to prime.  There are no plugs in and no fuel.  I don't want it starting until I know the oil system is all right.
2. I have a gauge attached up at the oil pressure sender it doesn't budge off zero.  
3. I pulled the sender out and cranked and no oil came out of the sender hole.

Anyone have any hints?  Is there a better way to prime the oil system?

[Scud]

Somebody had a problem like that recently and I think the o-ring on the UFI filter was too thin - not making contact. What filter are you using?

[Craig]

Somebody had a problem like that recently and I think the o-ring on the UFI filter was too thin - not making contact. What filter are you using?

 

UFI.  Of course.  With  hose clamp on this time!  Nothing like  dropping the sump again full of fresh new oil...but that is probably where I am heading.

[Scud]

What else you gonna do tonight, watch TV? Run out and get a different filter first.

[MartyNZ]

Motrhead has a lesson about loose filters:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19189

[Yam350]

I had this issue recently with a new ufi oil filter. I couldn't gat any oil pressure and eventually took it all apart again and it turned out to be the seal o the filter. It was thinner than the old seal (also a ufi) and was allowing the filter body to bottom out meaning that no seal was created. I used the old seal and pressure was restored.

[Chuck]

I've been telling you guys about UFIs..  Get yourself a Bosch 3330 or Wix or Hi Flo, or something. Maybe not a Fram.. 

If it's *not* the oil filter, you may need to pack the oil pump with lithium grease. That's what VW recommended on the air cooled engines to get them to prime..

Oh.. and.. Have you checked to make no sh!t sure the oil pressure sender is working?

[Craig]

I've been telling you guys about UFIs..  Get yourself a Bosch 3330 or Wix or Hi Flo, or something. Maybe not a Fram.. 

If it's *not* the oil filter, you may need to pack the oil pump with lithium grease. That's what VW recommended on the air cooled engines to get them to prime..

Oh.. and.. Have you checked to make no sh!t sure the oil pressure sender is working?

 

At this point the lithium grease I had packed in there is completely gone.  Not going to go all the way into the oil pump except as a last resort.

 

Somehow I missed the memo on the UFI filter.  I will get a different filter.

 

I am also wondering whether or not my pressure regulator got stuck open with debris from last years disaster.  

 

Scud,  unfortunately that is exactly what I did, went and watched a really bad King Arthur movie with number 3 son.   Somehow, watching Keira Knightly in a two piece leather bikini using a broadsword against linebacker sized Saxon warriors didn't fix the bike or improve my mood...

[Chuck]

 

 

 am also wondering whether or not my pressure regulator got stuck open with debris from last years disaster.  

That *can* happen. I'd be looking there, cleaning and testing it whether it's the problem or not. I'd just *assumed* you'd gone through the oil system..

[thumper]

No oil out of the sender hole = no oil pressure, or a passage way is blocked and the block was not correctly cleaned out.

[Craig]

 

 

 

 am also wondering whether or not my pressure regulator got stuck open with debris from last years disaster.  

That *can* happen. I'd be looking there, cleaning and testing it whether it's the problem or not. I'd just *assumed* you'd gone through the oil system..

 

 

I did, but given the amount of debris in there I could have missed something.  I will pull it out and check again.

 

 

No oil out of the sender hole = no oil pressure, or a passage way is blocked and the block was not correctly cleaned out.

 

 

Yep.  Really don't want to re-re-buld this engine...but may have no choice.

[Lucky Phil]

 

I've been telling you guys about UFIs..  Get yourself a Bosch 3330 or Wix or Hi Flo, or something. Maybe not a Fram.. 

If it's *not* the oil filter, you may need to pack the oil pump with lithium grease. That's what VW recommended on the air cooled engines to get them to prime..

Oh.. and.. Have you checked to make no sh!t sure the oil pressure sender is working?

 

 

I am also wondering whether or not my pressure regulator got stuck open with debris from last years disaster.  

 

 

 

You mean after an engine failure you havent checked and cleaned the pressure reg during the rebuild?...tut,tut,tut

 

Ciao

[pete roper]

Just on the topic of using grease in the oil pump? I've actually found that this can be counter productive as it tends to hinder the ingress of oil into the teeth. I can remember, (Barely!) a couple of early 850T3 rebuilds where I had to actually had to drop the sump off again and then spin the engine over on the starter while forcing oil up the pick-up gallery with a drum pump because they failed to prove, even with the grease trick performed.

 

Once forcibly primed they got pressure perfectly once the sump was back on. (Shrug?)

[Lucky Phil]

What about before installing the front cover and oil pump drive you use a piece of rubber FI hose on a battery drill to spin and prime the pump, the oil cooler and at the same time check for flow to the heads. Then put the drive on the oil pump and the cam chain etc and button it up?

 

Ciao

[Craig]

What about before installing the front cover and oil pump drive you use a piece of rubber FI hose on a battery drill to spin and prime the pump, the oil cooler and at the same time check for flow to the heads. Then put the drive on the oil pump and the cam chain etc and button it up?

 

 

I may end up doing this.

 

The mystery has deepened a bit.  I dropped the sump and pull the filter and regulator assembly.

 

1.  It was a HiFlo filter, not  UFI, the o-ring looked plenty thick and it felt like it was sealing against the o-ring not a metal to metal seal.  That said, the filter was empty.  It had a bit of oil on top but nothing IN the filter.  I reassembled the engine about two weeks ago, but did not fill with oil until yesterday.  So the filter would have started empty, but if the pump was moving anything it should have filled the filter.  I will get a new filter tomorrow at the FLAPS just in case there is a problem with this one.

 

2.  The regulator and thermostat valves were very clean, either I cleaned them back in August and forgot I did it, or there was no debris.

 

Since I haven't found anything conclusive I am going to install a new filter (primed with oil this time since that is my normal practice) and try pressing up with the starter motor.  If that doesn't work I am pulling the timing chest and going in for the pump.  This is a brand new pump and I can't imagine there is a way to install the thing wrong and still get the timing gears (yes I have Caruso gears)  to fit.  But spinning up the pump with a drill would give me a one more ways of checking things.  Maybe somehow I left out the key on the oil pump shaft.  I don't have one lying around, but the only way I can see to make a pump like that fail is for the shaft to crack or the gear isn't engaged on the key.