V11 Sport 2001 intermittent stalling

[docc]

Battery voltage using a multimeter is 12.67v.

 

My relays are these: http://dpguzzi.com/relay.htm

 

 

 

 

That AGM battery is still only 85%. Should be *fine*, but ought to be properly conditioned to get close to 100% (12.84v).

 

Those GEI relays are simply not adequately rated for the Fuel Injection/Ignition Relay (or the Starter Relay/ Relay#1 on the Gen One V11). They'll run hot (obviously) and fail (eventually).

[swooshdave]

I'd kill to have a battery at 12.67v. When they drop into the 11s I start to have problems.

[docc]

Know your AGM:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18838

[Tinus89]

Have you eliminated the hot wire you found?

 

Sidestand switches are a pain, just to be sure jumper it out temporary

Poke a wire in 30 and 87 of the relay socket.

 

I hate to harp on but your Go Winkie light would have told you that

 

I did not find a hot wire, only a hot relay. Checked all wiring, found nothing out of the ordinary. Will jumper out the sidestand switch indeed. But could that cause extremely poor running? Would it just not start at all?

What's a Go Winkie light? 

EDIT: Found the topic, reading it now

 

I'm not even sure what we're looking at there. 

 

You are looking at the right rear top gearbox mount. The one that cracks more often (but I think usually on the left). 

Look here: 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19792&page=3&hl=%2Bcase+%2Bcrack&do=findComment&comment=217546

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19814&hl=%20case%20%20crack

 

 

In the above picture, the red arrow points to the area ground down. The green circle is where the oil accumulates, the orange circle is where they crack more often.

 

 

You have a Rosso? Pretty sure those have the extra frame support. Unlikely the trans case is cracked, probably the liquid gasket around the trans panels has given up. Mine has been weeping for years I'll get to it eventually.

 

I have a Rosso, but not the limited edition. Mine does not have the extra frame support, not even the bracket on the frame to bolt it to.

 

That AGM battery is still only 85%. Should be *fine*, but ought to be properly conditioned to get close to 100% (12.84v).

 

 

Those GEI relays are simply not adequately rated for the Fuel Injection/Ignition Relay (or the Starter Relay/ Relay#1 on the Gen One V11). They'll run hot (obviously) and fail (eventually).

 

 

This is not an AGM battery, but a Yuasa. Keep in mind, this voltage is after a number of starts without long running, and putting it on ignition for a while.

 

I may have to get higher rated relays then, but could that cause the problem? After the initial failure, I moved all relays one position, which did not solve the problem.

[docc]

It is hard to conceive that your Yuasa, lying on its side, is not AGM?

 

It seems the heat that damaged your connection was generated by the relay. I would find that relay unreliable and the connection, now,  as well.

 

Since that relay operates the fuel injectors, ignition coils, and fuel pump, I would say "yes" this could be the cause of your trouble. Yet, "patients are entitled to more than one problem."

[swooshdave]

 

This is not an AGM battery, but a Yuasa. Keep in mind, this voltage is after a number of starts without long running, and putting it on ignition for a while.

 

 

AGM is Absorbed Glass Mat, a type of battery. Yuasa is a brand.

 

Your's is a Yuasa AGM.

 

Do you not have a charger? You will need to get the battery charged at some point.

[stewgnu]

That early 'paint' on the engine ... ew. What were they thinking... sorry, off topic..

[Tinus89]

 

 

This is not an AGM battery, but a Yuasa. Keep in mind, this voltage is after a number of starts without long running, and putting it on ignition for a while.

 

 

AGM is Absorbed Glass Mat, a type of battery. Yuasa is a brand.

 

Your's is a Yuasa AGM.

 

Do you not have a charger? You will need to get the battery charged at some point.

 

 

Right. I genuinely feel stupid .

Yes I have a charger and will charge it when I leave the bike for longer then a month. Last winter, sitting idle for over a month in a cold shed (-5 to 5deg C), she started up like it was summer.

[Tinus89]

Update: I found a supplier that has more capable relays in the country! However, for now he only has two on stock.

So, aside from the relay that obviously got hot, which should I replace with a heavier one? Which suffer the worst loads?

[docc]

The Fuel Injection Relay for sure and, if your V11 fails The Easy Livin' Test, also the Start Relay (usually #1 in the front).

[Tinus89]

So, update: I REALLY need your help guys! Here is what I did:

 

- Livin easy test: negative. So I replaced the relays #1 and #5 with high current Omrons.

- Clamped all relay connectors so the relays make proper contact. Reinstalled relays with vaseline.

- Visually inspect all wiring and check all connectors

- Readout errors: injection relay error. Deleted error.

- Bypassed sidestand switch.

- Checked/cleaned ignition switch.

- Installed Go Winky light on fuel petcock line.

 

I went for a drive, 18deg C outside. Drove for about an hour, stopped for 2 min with running engine, drove again. Then she started surging/backfiring popping in the exhaust again.

Findings:

- Go winky light stays lit solidly.

- When I pull the clutch as soon as she surges and close throttle, she idles like nothing happened. When I open the trottle again (2-3k rpm, no load) she starts backfiring popping into the exhaust and eventually dies.

- No errors now using GuzziDiag.

- Wiggling the relays doesn't affect the running.

 

ANY ideas? I'm lost... Please help!

[czakky]

How is your tank breather? Fuel filter? Valves?

 

I'm sure valves would have to be way out, but you never know.

[czakky]

I know you said you visually inspected all connections but in this case I would really focus on the fuel pump connections. I.e. Take apart connections and clean with contact cleaner. I've found mine with some corrosion before.

You seem like you know what you're doing, we can get this!

[docc]

I concur with czakky. You're going about this the right way.

 

So, as we say clinically, "What's Next Most?" . . .

 

 . . . fuel pump/ connections, fuel filter, fuel line too close to the cylinder/head, faulty electric petcock, failed tank vent (tank suck)  . . .

[MartyNZ]

... I went for a drive, 18deg C outside. Drove for about an hour, stopped for 2 min with running engine, drove again. Then she started surging/backfiring again.

Findings:

- Go winky light stays lit solidly.

- When I pull the clutch as soon as she surges and close throttle, she idles like nothing happened. When I open the trottle again (2-3k rpm, no load) she starts backfiring and eventually dies.

- No errors now using GuzziDiag.

- Wiggling the relays doesn't affect the running.

 

ANY ideas? I'm lost... Please help!

A few suggestions:

The backfiring then dying might be related to

1/ Valve clearances,

2/ Induction Rubber Sleeves,

3/ Ignition coil or ignition lead faults.

 

1/ a sputter, cough problem when very hot can be caused by too small valve clearances holding the valves open. After a run the engine is hot, but when you stop, with the engine idling, the temperature continues to rise because air cooling is limited without forward speed. This is often overlooked. Valve clearances set too loose is better than too tight. See http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19610 for valve clearance setting advice.

 

2/ The engine is very sensitive to air leaks in those short rubber sleeves between the cylinder heads and the throttle bodies. Cracks so small you can barely see them can let in air, though this affects low rpm the worst. Air leaks may be worse when the engine is hot. Just a guess on this one.

 

3/ Corrosion at the ignition lead connection to the coil can affect the engine at higher engine loads.

Look for cracks in the ignition coils. Cracks can cause problems as temperatures increase.

If the coil/leads/plugs are dirty, then a tiny amount of rain or mist can make the dirt conductive, so the high voltage shorts to ground instead of through the spark plug.  

Feel for a cool cylinder to identify which side has the problem.

See also  http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12326&page=7&do=findComment&comment=151210

 

Gio also made a good suggestion on post # 12 of this thread. Fuel vapour lock is a problem if you have an external fuel pump.

On my bike, when I tried to restart after a fuel stop, the engine backfired and popped one throttle body out of the rubber sleeve. Look for fuel hoses touching the cylinder head, and think about fitting insulating sleeves or reflecting foil to the fuel pump and inlet hose. 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17560

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17999

Edited June 5, 2017 by MartyNZ