starting & stopping issue

[luhbo]

It's always new and interesting how and where the threads go around here I never thought I'd stumble over wool wax in a bike forum, over Little Feet neither however ...

The wax I use is sold under "Fluid Film NAS", to mention just one type. Great stuff, but as usual it's the added value that makes such a product interesting, in this case it's the smell - makes you easily addicted. Using it on electrical contacts is something I yet have to try.

Maybe this is a family thing. My father used a furniture polish called "Wunderglanz" on all his bikes, they always smelled like 'Amareto' that way - despite the fact that he was far away from buying any italian product in his bike days

[Tomchri]

Hi 68C

Lanolin oil, made from sheeps,, bæ bæ, made for US army, to protect ballast tanks on big ships.  Its been used for undercoating cars to.  I always used white acid free vaseline, but this oil doesnt dry, and it spreads in all directions, like I told Roy, spray it inside your car door, and it climbs upwards, impresses me, and of corse non conductive.

[68C]

Have you got a trade name for it?

[Tomchri]

Will try to send a picture, name a little later

[fotoguzzi]

about the clutch slip, the clutch push rod has some cone seals that can let gear oil migrate up the push rod and get on the friction plates.. do you have any gear lube coming out the weep hole under the bell housing? there is a stack of o-rings to replace the cone filters and the friction plates can be cleaned insitu with a wash of mineral oil

[Tomchri]

68C

The file was to big to upload,,, meaning Im lost, but its made by Eureka chemical compay.

[Tomchri]

Problem solved,,, at least I went thru all conections before my relays showed up. Wish there was a picture of everybodys face ( smile ) when things are solved. New omrons, fuel pump going
Thanks for all input.
Tom Norway

[Tomchri]

Fotoguzzi

Took starter out yesterday, starter gear All dry, and no oilmess inside, no cat smell. No oil from weep Hole.

Scud was explaing about the springs, 50 - 50 hard and soft, which In my case seems probably correct. Dont think the friction plates are gone after 49000km

[Guzzi2Go]

 

Update. Did take my tank of today, went thru all connections with Lanolin, a little loose ground on the left side of the frame. But all the same, no noise from fuel pump.   Ordered 15 Omron relays today from Mouser.com in Sweden  32nkr - about 3.20$ a piece. They had 672 in stock. The side stand switch is definitly not working, easy to check.   But since my fuel pump is not priming,,, RELAY ?      Hopefully relays at the end of the week.

Sorry for joining the party late (still hang over from the last one), but I am just looking at this thing as my bike also tends to go out and/or won't start from time to time. The main symptom is identical - the pump does not prime. Also, want to use the opportunity to cross check with other members here if I am missing on something...

 

The pump is primed via relay #46 (Injector relay, numbers from the page 5, section P of the Worshop manual), which is in turn primed via relay #49 (ECU relay) and that one switches on only if either side stand switch #40 logical-OR neutral switch #13 driving relay #15 is closed. 

 

The next thing then is that the engine cutoff switch #36, terminals 1 and 3 of connector #35 must be also be closed. If it isn't, no power anywhere from pump to starter, though lights will work..

 

There is also a bullet connector #57, White-brown wire between the start switch and the relay #49. 

 

So I'd say if the pump does not prime AND pushing starter button (clutch pulled, switch #17) does:

- NOT turn the engine, look at switches #17,  #40 and  #13 and relay #15.

- turn the engine, look at switch #36, relays #46 and #49, connectors #35 and #57.

 

Would that be right?

[Tomchri]

Like docc explained, no kranking, bullet connectors. Im absolutely no electrician, just a little common sense, and try to follow advice.

Omron relays made my day, they even weigh more. Mouser.com. I made it, so will you !!

[jchayes]

Fluid Film. That's the stuff from Eureka Chemical. The Rust Store is a reliable supplier. Been buying from them for years. Great stuff, Fluid Film. One word of caution: it can soften some adhesives and has a funky, sorta "minty" odor some folks don't like.

[docc]

It's always new and interesting how and where the threads go around here I never thought I'd stumble over wool wax in a bike forum, over Little Feet neither however ...

The wax I use is sold under "Fluid Film NAS", to mention just one type. Great stuff, but as usual it's the added value that makes such a product interesting, in this case it's the smell - makes you easily addicted. Using it on electrical contacts is something I yet have to try.

Maybe this is a family thing. My father used a furniture polish called "Wunderglanz" on all his bikes, they always smelled like 'Amareto' that way - despite the fact that he was far away from buying any italian product in his bike days

 

 

Fluid Film. That's the stuff from Eureka Chemical. The Rust Store is a reliable supplier. Been buying from them for years. Great stuff, Fluid Film. One word of caution: it can soften some adhesives and has a funky, sorta "minty" odor some folks don't like.

If my Sport smelled like Amaretto, i cannot think this a bad thing in any way.

[Steve S]

Regarding the clutch slip have you checked that there is free play in the lever, the lever has an adjuster in it, no clearance will wear the plates so it may be too late but it's a simple check

[Kiwi_Roy]

If you look closely at this schematic you will see that the ECU and all the important stuff like injectors is supported by just 3 wires from the rest of the bike.

 

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_V11_Sport_Catalytic.gif

 

The wire with the connector 58 is just the signal to the tacho, it's not important.

The red wire feeding Fuse 1 & Fuse 2 is obviously important.

The most interesting one is the one running through connector 57, see how it goes directly to the coil of relay 49 (the ECU Relay) The other side of the coil is grounded through the 1N4007 diode. (this diode prevents anything bad happening if you accidentally put the battery in with the polarity reversed)

 

When you turn the key On if the stars are aligned the relay 49 is energized closing the contacts feeding power from Fuse 1 to the ECU and also to the coil of relay 46, the other side of this relay 46 coil is grounded through the ECU pin 19 so that relay also closes putting power on the injectors, ignition coils and the fuel pump which starts to whirr.

After a couple of seconds the ECU thinks "I'm not receiving pulses from the rotation sensor 53" and un-grounds the coil of relay 46 stopping the fuel pump.

If the engine starts to crank over the rotation sensor sends pulses to the ECU which wakes up and again grounds out pin 19 causing Relay 46 to again power up the fuel pump and sparks etc. causing the motor to start and run.

 

Now suppose you turn the key On and no power passes through the connector 57 to the coil of the ECU relay 57, the bikes not going to start in 100 years.

Suppose also the bike is running but the power to connector 57 is erratic, the relay 49 is going to drop out causing the ECU to have a fit.

 

Lets back up and see what comes before the connector.

First of all the Ignition switch is fed from Fuse 4 to terminals I & K, the table shows which contacts are made in the 4 positions Park, Lock Off and On

In the On position stand switch 40, the relay 15, Neutral light and the Start relay 23 get power.

If either the Stand switch or the Stand relay are closed power goes to the Kill switch and the bike should crank over.

 

BTW the contact is missing on the Kill Switch, just imagine the two contacts are connected by the Run contact.

Look at the Start button then trace the wire down through a bullet connector 60, out to the clutch switch 17 and back through another bullet connector 60 then to the Start relay 23

 

It's really just a collection of simple circuits.

[Tomchri]

Roy

Seems to me this must be a piece of cake for you,,, Making a V simple new wiring system. I know for sure I buy one. I wonder how many wires can you Get away with,,, even pump, starter aso ?

And yes I will print the page,,,, just to scare me

Thanks tom. Norway