Guzzi clutch noise and wear

[docc]

Oh, dear . . . If I install the RAM clutch in my early Sport, I become a single plater?

 

All new noises to get used to!

[Chuck]

FWIW, I remember a rant by Pete saying the Ram single plate clutch was short lived. I'd give him a ping and see if his opinion has changed. 

[swooshdave]

FWIW, I remember a rant by Pete saying the Ram single plate clutch was short lived. I'd give him a ping and see if his opinion has changed. 

 

Rant and Pete is redundant.

[docc]

I certainly can't complain about the V11 clutch. All the wear found is acceptable. If the input hub hadn't walked off, I'd still be wailing on it.

[LowRyter]

 

 

... and the two clutch plates and intermediate plate are free to rattle back and forth with the lever pulled in. ...

 

 I didn't think of the back and forth DOF. But is this axis a problem? The engine pulses in another plane, and the wear we see on the splines surely comes from the radial rattle. Back and forth would be axial.

Anyhow, I see a good chance that holding in the clutch at stops in 1st gear or at other occasions isn't really that bad, maybe more weal than woe even.

 

Really bad for the clutch and the splines is probably being hard on the throttle at lower revs, let's say below 3 or maybe 4k.

And then, Docc's V11 has seen some miles, why should the parts look as new?  The usual life span of a motorcycle is below 50.000, everything above is a bonus for the owner and lost profit for the manufacturer. See it this way.

 

I expected my flywheel to look much worse at 99,000 miles. I did not expect the input hub to look so bad, but no one expected it to come completely loose, either. (That was certainly my increasing idle rattle noise.)

 

While I am not one to run the Sport below 4,000 RPM, I am admittedly often hard on the throttle and downshifting/ rev-matching, then hard on it right back up again.  "Hell-on-wheels!"  . . . and tires . . . and brakes . . . and clutches . . .

 

 

So long as you're rev matching when shift, I would think that would take the shock of out of shifting and be easy on the drive train.  I would think strong throttle, so long as you stay smooth, shouldn't be an issue. 

(Of course this is said by the guy that cracked his transmission case.) 

[Camn]

My conception about the noise when the clutch lever is released (standard double plate clutch):

When the clutch lever is released, following parts snug up and build up one “single” unit inside the flywheel: two friction plates, one intermediate plate and one pressure plate.  This “single unit weight” is oscillating inside the flywheel (the outer gears of the pressure plate and intermediate plate against the inner gears of the flywheel) and makes the noise.

[docc]

FWIW, I remember a rant by Pete saying the Ram single plate clutch was short lived. I'd give him a ping and see if his opinion has changed. 

Have a link to his comments?

 

I would go to Wg and try and find his comments, but I find it impossible to locate anything there.

 

And what if I got *caught* over there? *TRON* revisited!

[Scud]

If you are still intrigued by the RAM, you should talk to Gordon at MG Cycle. The current friction plate is totally different than it was some years ago. I'm happy with mine so far, but the long-term test has only just begun.

[docc]

If you are still intrigued by the RAM, you should talk to Gordon at MG Cycle. The current friction plate is totally different than it was some years ago. I'm happy with mine so far, but the long-term test has only just begun.

Yeah, well . . . I'm conflicted . . .

 

but, y'all knew that about me already . . .

[Chuck]

 

 

Have a link to his comments?

Sorry. After Luap made the last change and archived threads, I can't find anything. Just send Pete a ping and ask. Remember.. we're dealing with my memory here. It could have been yesterday or several years ago.. 

[swooshdave]

Google works pretty good on WG posts.

[Chuck]

∆∆∆∆ Gordon knows his stuff.

[docc]

I know one thing, for sure, I expect the Sport to be noticeably quieter with the input hub fastened back down.

[footgoose]

RAM sintered clutch plate

 

From MGCycle .....

 

"New generation sintered clutch plate for RAM low inertia clutch. Stainless steel and advanced MIBA sintered friction material for superior friction and wear properties. ~6.68mm thick. These plates are a little bit thicker than previous versions and depending on the version of RAM clutch you have, may require a slightly longer clutch push rod. Also note that some early clutches prior to 2015 may require modification in order to use the MIBA plate."

http://www.miba.com/Friction_Materials,4,en.html

 

I measured my RAM clutch plate by measuring the gap between flywheel and plate. = 6.68 but it looks like a sandwich of a thin metal and two- 2

+/- mm contact patches. Hopefully that measurement reflects I have the latest version MIBA The previous version was 6mm thick.

 

 

 

I'm just browsing here, but figured I'd list for other's interest. RE: RAM These posts all seem to be pre-new generation. (MIBA) and at least one thread is for older Guzzis.

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4301

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19010

 

http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/ram-clutch-failure-on-77-lemans.7151/

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14469

[Camn]

Have a link to his comments

Could it be this one from Grisoghetto? I remember also a known German specialist (HT-Moto, retired some years ago) saying me that it is not the clutch, it is the gearbox... But when the single plate clutch makes the noises vice versa (noisy when lever pulled)...

 

"

So let's get down and dirty with Guzzi clutches.

 

Essentially they are fairly bulletproof. Sure, because they are bought from the cheapest supplier you can tell that they are built to pretty much the lowest acceptable standard but on the whole all of them, from the old twin plater used on the 2VPC models through to the single plate variants used on the 8V's and smallblocks, are pretty reliable - - and there was the horror story of the Scura single plater and the early Hydro Cali single plater in the 2003-4 period. Generally though, when compared to other marques problems these were rare, it's just they got talked about more because Guzzi owners, especially the Corn Cob Pipe mob are as verbose as @#!#$# and have forgotten that the 'Old Bikes' were nowhere as good or reliable as they remember!

 

So, getting on to why your 'Clutch' on your 8V is 'Knocking' the simple fact is it isn't!

 

The entire assembly on the 8V is fairly light. As the motor fires the crank accelerates and decelerates unevenly due to the firing sequence. The lighter the rotating mass connected to it, (Including not only the crank but the flywheel/clutch and the alternator belt and armature as well.) the less mass there is to act as a kinettic 'Battery' to store energy and even out the power pulses.

 

When the clutch is disengaged, (Lever out.) the input shaft in the gearbox is also accelerating and decelerating with the crank etc. Unfortunately the secondary shaft and the output shaft pinions have no incentive to do the speed up/slow down thing! All they want to do is sit bloody still!

 

So every time the input shaft speeds up it speeds up the input shaft and primary gear and then as it slows down the primary wants to keep spinning so the backlash in between the pinion teeth is smashed back and forth and it makes a knocking noise! It's NOT the clutch! Engage the clutch and the noise goes away beacause the input shaft, (Especially on a new bike where the seals on the 2RS bearings in the gearbox are still tight!) will slow to a halt or at least not have the power pulses to cause the hammering.

 

This can also be exacerbated if the throttle body balance is out or the idle speed is too low. There is a reason why the target idle, (Several actually!) is 1250 +/-50 RPM!

"

https://www.grisoghetto.com/t3163-clutch-knocking-sound