slowkitty Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 Dear all, Appreciate some help here. Background: I completed a Scura conversion to a twin plater. Got the full set of V11 parts from Gutsibits, and I installed it. The issue now is that I have lost my neutral. When I put the bike in neutral, the clutch engages and the bike stalls, even with full clutch in. [amendment to the above: What I meant was that when I put the bike in gear, even with full pull on the clutch lever, the clutch does not disengage] I have read this ... http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19808&hl=%2Bclutch+%2Bpush+%2Brod Scud seems to had the same problem. Reading online, the consensus seems to be that there is no different pushrod for a twin plate V11 and a single plater. Otherwise a loner pushrod may be the solution. My mech and I removed the clutch master cylinder, and he thinks that the clutch cup is now recessed, such that there is no contact with the piston of the master cylinder (see the attached pic) i.e. no actuation. An easier fix may be that of putting a thicker bearing or shims to push the cup out? A pic of the clutch cup is attached. Any other suggestion before I go the more drastic route of disassembly? Even if I disassemble, assuming that all parts are right and properly fitted, what can be changed to improve the situation? Thank you.
Scud Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 The thread you referenced was for my LeMans, which already had a twin-plate clutch. I used a RAM single-plate in my Scura. That said, if you already have the clutch slave out, it's not too hard to put a thicker bearing or an extra spacer in there. You should be able to test for neutral easily after that. My clutch problem may have been due to using all 10 stiff clutch springs (later swapped for 5 stiff and 5 soft). But I also have to admit the possibility that I had not correctly seated all the clutch springs in the wells in the flywheel and/or pressure plate when I originally assembled it.
coreytrevor Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 If like you said, the bike stalls even if in neutral, it seems like it's not the clutch. Even if you can't disengage the clutch, it should still be able to idle in neutral. Does it jump forward when it stalls or stall like you switched off the key.
Scud Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 The issue now is that I have lost my neutral. When I put the bike in neutral, the clutch engages and the bike stalls, even with full clutch in. If like you said, the bike stalls even if in neutral, it seems like it's not the clutch. Even if you can't disengage the clutch, it should still be able to idle in neutral. Does it jump forward when it stalls or stall like you switched off the key. Yeah - a more detailed description could help - or if you've mis-stated something, you could correct it. It's not clear to me whether you have neutral or not. Can you roll the bike freely with engine off and transmission in neutral? 1
coreytrevor Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 And the amount of resistance felt at the clutch lever should tell you whether you are compressing clutch springs or just the spring in the master cylinder.
Lucky Phil Posted August 21, 2017 Posted August 21, 2017 I think he has mis stated the problem. Seems the clutch isnt disengaging due to the pushrod from the single plate clutch now being too short. Ciao
slowkitty Posted August 21, 2017 Author Posted August 21, 2017 I think he has mis stated the problem. Seems the clutch isnt disengaging due to the pushrod from the single plate clutch now being too short. Ciao Yes, you are right. I have clarified my predicament. .. too early in the morning when I posted the thread.
slowkitty Posted August 22, 2017 Author Posted August 22, 2017 [Yeah - a more detailed description could help - or if you've mis-stated something, you could correct it. It's not clear to me whether you have neutral or not. Can you roll the bike freely with engine off and transmission in neutral?] The answer is yes. My apologies, the problem is that when I put the bike in gear (from neutral) with the clutch lever fully in, there is no complete disengagement of the gear, to the point that the bike will stall.
docc Posted August 22, 2017 Posted August 22, 2017 What is the list of the "full set of parts" you installed?
coreytrevor Posted August 22, 2017 Posted August 22, 2017 Dumb question maybe, but did you put in the cup that sits in the pressure plate that the front of the pushrod pushes on?
Scud Posted August 22, 2017 Posted August 22, 2017 When I did the clutch on my LeMans, I had a few sets of used parts available. The pushrods were identical in dimension, but there was variation elsewhere. The depths of the cups that sit in the pressure plate were different - so were the thicknesses of throwout bearings and washers. All of those differences make it tricky to get the right total length between the clutch piston and the pressure plate. And before you ask, I don't know what the right total length is... The problem with mine was a partial release. I could tell that the surfaces were rubbing with the clutch lever pulled in. I had a little success by adjusting the screw-plunger on the clutch lever. But then I went too far and the fluid would not return to the reservoir when it heated up (clutch lever got rock solid with no free-play). Hopefully a lever adjustment, extra washer, or thicker bearing will work for you. If not, read on... Eventually, I ended up taking the engine out again and alternating 5 stiff and 5 normal clutch springs. As I mentioned above, it's possible that at least part of my problem was the springs not being seated correctly. If you are not certain that the springs are totally inside the wells of both flywheel and pressure plate, it might be worth pulling the engine again. Also, if you got 10 new stiff springs, I think that is too much for the hydraulic system.
slowkitty Posted August 24, 2017 Author Posted August 24, 2017 When I did the clutch on my LeMans, I had a few sets of used parts available. The pushrods were identical in dimension, but there was variation elsewhere. The depths of the cups that sit in the pressure plate were different - so were the thicknesses of throwout bearings and washers. All of those differences make it tricky to get the right total length between the clutch piston and the pressure plate. And before you ask, I don't know what the right total length is... The problem with mine was a partial release. I could tell that the surfaces were rubbing with the clutch lever pulled in. I had a little success by adjusting the screw-plunger on the clutch lever. But then I went too far and the fluid would not return to the reservoir when it heated up (clutch lever got rock solid with no free-play). Hopefully a lever adjustment, extra washer, or thicker bearing will work for you. If not, read on... Eventually, I ended up taking the engine out again and alternating 5 stiff and 5 normal clutch springs. As I mentioned above, it's possible that at least part of my problem was the springs not being seated correctly. If you are not certain that the springs are totally inside the wells of both flywheel and pressure plate, it might be worth pulling the engine again. Also, if you got 10 new stiff springs, I think that is too much for the hydraulic system. Hi, thank you for the feedback. I had some thought and I was wondering, if the springs were not seated properly, will I get the "clang clang clang" of the clutch? I will try the least intrusive method of solving this first. The parts that were changed were a complete set of twin-plater clutch from Gutsibits.
slowkitty Posted August 24, 2017 Author Posted August 24, 2017 Pic of the parts attached, less the boss and the cup.
slowkitty Posted August 24, 2017 Author Posted August 24, 2017 I did change out the springs, thinking that it might be a good thing to change them out given the effort to get there. So I guess that I may well have harder springs too.
docc Posted August 24, 2017 Posted August 24, 2017 Total conversion to twin plate? What about the gearbox input hub?
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