Re-engineering the Shift Spring

[czakky]

I will gladly invest in a couple over here too.

[guzzi323]

Though I doubt I could make it for the 'spring party' I'd like a spring to install next time I've got the time to install.
I had a warranty spring repair a very long time ago and feel I've probably been pushing my luck.

 

Thanks.

[swooshdave]

So, all you Americans are going to spring along to Scud's for a Spring spring fitting party?

 

I assume you've never been over here? It's a BIG place.

[footgoose]

Addressing the "early bikes don't seem to be affected by the broken spring" evidence, and evidence presented here over the past several years, it seems there are no less than three iterations of springs up to the new "forum spring".

 

The original design put into early bikes, up to...? Which was apparently a pretty good spring.

The second batch which came along sometime later, when the bean counters inevitably needed to shave off a bit of cost here and there, and sourced a new supplier.  (some 2002 at least, had these.) Aprilia purchased Guzzi in April of 2000, and the financial difficulties ensued until Piaggio took over in '04.

A third batch, in some instances being labeled "upgraded". I'm not sure if these came about with the factory "fix" to the pre-selector problems (the new cover) or if the "upgraded" springs were yet another (possibly aftermarket) hopeful fix.

 

So, it seems all springs made and produced after the earliest ones, were not up to the job. My assumptions are just that. I doubt we'll ever know why the early bikes spring seemingly, does not break.

 

Can anyone shed light on the reasons behind the gear selector box update/upgrade? Was spring breakage part of it, or were there other issues they were trying to address? And when was it made available?

 

Just a curiosity, as the new 'forum spring' will no doubt, bring this discussion to a welcome halt.

[Chuck]

It sure would be fun to have a look at an early preselector and pawl spring.. I didn't realize they never broke.

[68C]

 

So, all you Americans are going to spring along to Scud's for a Spring spring fitting party?

 

I assume you've never been over here? It's a BIG place.

Only twice on training courses with Bell Helicopter in Fort Worth and Gulfstream in Savannah. They were not holidays so I did not see much more than the hotels and training schools.

 

I was suprised a city the size of Savannah only had a Harley dealer and a garden machinery place that did imported trail bikes. There are two bike shops within a mile of me here and at least another four in the city, which is smaller than Savannah. I have a feeling there are more motorcyclists per head of population in the UK than in the USA. It is not hard to get fifty bikes on a local rally.

[docc]

I bet you're right. You want the Yanks to turn out? Mention Jeeps and rampant destruction of equipment . . .

[Scud]

It sure would be fun to have a look at an early preselector and pawl spring.. I didn't realize they never broke.

 

When the new springs come in, I'll put one in the greenie and take a closer look. While the majority of the transmission is the same for the whole V11 series, I have personally seen 4 variations in the pre-selector:

1. 2000 Red-Frame (my Greenie) - the preselector gears are cut-through in places and have teeth only about 270 degrees.
2. 2002 First year of black frame (my Scura) -  the preselector gears are solid and have 360-degree gears (many of which never get engaged). this one had the too-large boss, which caused spring-binding
3. 2003 with internal fuel pump (my red LeMans) -  same as the 2002, but now with smaller boss. Also has the second eccentric adjuster, where the earlier models had only fixed pins.
4. 2004 (a spare tranny from a parted Nero Corsa that mysteriously arrived at my house one day) - this preselector was the same as the 2003, but added the "banana" reinforcement plate. I installed this one on the LeMans, which is off enjoying Arizona with her new owner.

 

So... with all those changes, Moto Guzzi must have been trying to solve some sort of problem. Has Chuck finally solved it? Only time and aggressive shifting will tell. I'm trying to do my part.

[swooshdave]

Motorcycles are not as popular in the southeast US for a variety of reasons including some brutally hot and humid summers.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[68C]

Motorcycles are not as popular in the southeast US for a variety of reasons including some brutally hot and humid summers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Motorcycles are not as popular in the southeast US for a variety of reasons including some brutally hot and humid summers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fair comment.

[docc]

I know this topic is an aside to the main  thread, but interesting, nonetheless.

 

As far as motorcycling goes the Euro-bike sport/touring crowd (that often do their own work) is outnumbered here probably 10,000 to one by the highway tourers (GoldWing etc), and the cruiser crowd (HD etc.).  Plus, folks have lots of space (generally) to store bigger toys (boats, cars, Jeeps, personal watercraft, quads, horses).  An old Guzzi only needs an edge in the shed, yah?

 

Although, I would lay odds that some of those folks might benefit by a custom-engineered spring somewhere in their lives . . .

[Lucky Phil]

I know this topic is an aside to the main  thread, but interesting, nonetheless.

 

As far as motorcycling goes the Euro-bike sport/touring crowd (that often do their own work) is outnumbered here probably 10,000 to one by the highway tourers (GoldWing etc), and the cruiser crowd (HD etc.).  Plus, folks have lots of space (generally) to store bigger toys (boats, cars, Jeeps, personal watercraft, quads, horses).  An old Guzzi only needs an edge in the shed, yah?

 

Although, I would lay odds that some of those folks might benefit by a custom-engineered spring somewhere in their lives . . .

You forgat about the space needed for the selection of hammers needed to maintain a Guzzi Docc:)

 

Ciao 

[Lucky Phil]

 

It sure would be fun to have a look at an early preselector and pawl spring.. I didn't realize they never broke.

 

When the new springs come in, I'll put one in the greenie and take a closer look. While the majority of the transmission is the same for the whole V11 series, I have personally seen 4 variations in the pre-selector:

1. 2000 Red-Frame (my Greenie) - the preselector gears are cut-through in places and have teeth only about 270 degrees.
2. 2002 First year of black frame (my Scura) -  the preselector gears are solid and have 360-degree gears (many of which never get engaged). this one had the too-large boss, which caused spring-binding
3. 2003 with internal fuel pump (my red LeMans) -  same as the 2002, but now with smaller boss. Also has the second eccentric adjuster, where the earlier models had only fixed pins.
4. 2004 (a spare tranny from a parted Nero Corsa that mysteriously arrived at my house one day) - this preselector was the same as the 2003, but added the "banana" reinforcement plate. I installed this one on the LeMans, which is off enjoying Arizona with her new owner.

 

So... with all those changes, Moto Guzzi must have been trying to solve some sort of problem. Has Chuck finally solved it? Only time and aggressive shifting will tell. I'm trying to do my part.

 

Maybe we can make that five variations Scud.My greenie has the early selector gears and small dia selector pawl boss,the late spring, the banana link and double eccentric black cover. Once I have the Chuck/Scud spring I've got it all covered:)

 

Ciao   

[Lucky Phil]

 

So, all you Americans are going to spring along to Scud's for a Spring spring fitting party?

 

I assume you've never been over here? It's a BIG place.

 

It is. After doing around 3 trips to the west coast over the years my wife and I had our honeymoon in the states a couple of years ago and travelled from LA to New York and back by plane. Yep just jump on the plane and 4 hours later your on the opposite coast. Then add the airport fiascos at both ends and, oh yeah, the timezone shifts and bugger we've lost 2 full days there and back.

Doesnt seem too big until you go from one side to the other.

 

Ciao   

[Chuck]

 

 

So, all you Americans are going to spring along to Scud's for a Spring spring fitting party?

 

I assume you've never been over here? It's a BIG place.

 

It is. After doing around 3 trips to the west coast over the years my wife and I had our honeymoon in the states a couple of years ago and travelled from LA to New York and back by plane. Yep just jump on the plane and 4 hours later your on the opposite coast. Then add the airport fiascos at both ends and, oh yeah, the timezone shifts and bugger we've lost 2 full days there and back.

Doesnt seem too big until you go from one side to the other.

 

Ciao   

 

You must have a faster plane than we take.   It's 4 hours from Indiana to LA non stop.