More Heartache Oil Leaks

[Chuck]

 

 

I personally use the developer froma dye penetrant check kit

Yeah, that works great, and is my favorite. Most people don't have ready access to it, though. Like Phil says.. it can be subtle. I had a persistent mist from Rosie (Rosso Corsa) for a good while. Changed gaskets, lapped the valve cover flat, etc. Finally, using developer and patience, found a literally pin hole in the valve cover casting. It wouldn't leak until the engine was hot enough to thin the oil.

[Lucky Phil]

 

 

 

I personally use the developer froma dye penetrant check kit

Yeah, that works great, and is my favorite. Most people don't have ready access to it, though. Like Phil says.. it can be subtle. I had a persistent mist from Rosie (Rosso Corsa) for a good while. Changed gaskets, lapped the valve cover flat, etc. Finally, using developer and patience, found a literally pin hole in the valve cover casting. It wouldn't leak until the engine was hot enough to thin the oil.

 

Yes Chuck thats a hard one. I once had an oil leak from a Ducati 750 belt drive tacho drive that persisted. Turned out to be a blind porosity hole inside the bored hole in the head casting right where the oring sealed the tacho drive gearbox. If the hole had been 2mm deeper or shallower it wouldnt have been an issue. Filled it with some devcon aluminium paste and all good.

 

Ciao

[LowRyter]

I got to ride 40 miles today and have oil drips.  It's still hard for me figure.   I am guessing that it's both the upper pan gasket and the timing cover.  There's certainly a sheen around those area, although I sprayed the powder on the front to the engine not all over the side.

 

the cooling fins over the right from corner are wet

 

 

 

there's a sheen running across the upper sump plate gasket.

 

 

and another sheen down the front cover seam.  a drop collected in the center next to the fastener relief on the right side of the seam (hard to see here)

 

 

I am still uncertain. I might try some stop leak and see how it works out. 

[Scud]

I would like to encourage you to replace gaskets, rather than use a "stop-leak" type of oil additive.

 

You could clean the engine again - then reapply the foot powder at the seams you missed before.

 

But If I was in this situation, I would just get four gaskets:

• The timing cover (front case) - and get the metal (not paper) gasket if you can
• Two upper sump gaskets
• One lower sump gasket

And for the "while you're there" stuff:  a Cam position sensor O-ring and a crankcase breather hose (unless you have replaced those recently). You could also replace the seal on the timing cover while you have it out. 

 

And an oil filter...

 

Replacing those gaskets probably requires only about 40 bolts and can be done in the length of any four Grateful Dead albums.

 

Then you should be good to go for a long while.

[czakky]

Replace album with songs.... it is the Dead right?

[LowRyter]

Docc, 

 

1)  there are two upper gaskets not just one?

 

2)  I have a breather hose.  When I serviced the air filter and replaced the fuel hose, I inspected the breather hose and frame which were clean.  It looked like a job more than I wanted to do and saw no benefit.    This task alone took me more than 4 Dead records (that tank removal and fuel tap leaks!)

 

3.  I can change the oil again and the gasket and the filter.  But I have only 400 miles on it.  I did inspect the sloppage plate and all the fasteners were tight.  I have a feeling that timing cover won't be much fun.  

 

4.  What is the harm of using stop leak?  It may not be what a mechanic would do but, I am not a mechanic. Yes, I am a little concerned taking something apart that I am not comfortable with.  (I am leaning toward stop leak and more talcum powder.)

 

As always, thanks for the advice. 

[czakky]

Two sump gaskets

[swooshdave]

No chance I'd use stop leak. Wouldn't even consider it. They are meant to swell rubber seals and may not work on gaskets.

 

Then again I probably have an oil filter label floating around my sump so what do I know?

[docc]

Docc, 

 

1)  there are two upper gaskets not just one?

 

2)  I have a breather hose.  When I serviced the air filter and replaced the fuel hose, I inspected the breather hose and frame which were clean.  It looked like a job more than I wanted to do and saw no benefit.    This task alone took me more than 4 Dead records (that tank removal and fuel tap leaks!)

 

3.  I can change the oil again and the gasket and the filter.  But I have only 400 miles on it.  I did inspect the sloppage plate and all the fasteners were tight.  I have a feeling that timing cover won't be much fun.  

 

4.  What is the harm of using stop leak?  It may not be what a mechanic would do but, I am not a mechanic. Yes, I am a little concerned taking something apart that I am not comfortable with.  (I am leaning toward stop leak and more talcum powder.)

 

As always, thanks for the advice. 

Since you have a Roper plate, there is one gasket above it and another below. Separate from the actual (lower) sump gasket. Your leaks look quite suspicious for timing cover. You might get a hex key on those fasteners and see if you can tighten it down judiciously (don't overtorque and use use a "star pattern").

 

I am in the "don't put anything in your oil that clogs things up" camp.  That's the kind of thing someone might do to a leaky F150 right before they foist it off on an unsuspecting buyer.

 

So, yeah, clean it up again and put an even spray of foot powder along the side seams of the timing chest. The powder should be so thick as to obscure the surfaces entirely (the spray stuff works best. Put it on thickly as seen in this Bell Housing Weep image):

[LowRyter]

thanks Docc.  

 

I never thought about sandwich-ing the Roper plate.

[Lucky Phil]

Docc, 

 

1)  there are two upper gaskets not just one?

 

2)  I have a breather hose.  When I serviced the air filter and replaced the fuel hose, I inspected the breather hose and frame which were clean.  It looked like a job more than I wanted to do and saw no benefit.    This task alone took me more than 4 Dead records (that tank removal and fuel tap leaks!)

 

3.  I can change the oil again and the gasket and the filter.  But I have only 400 miles on it.  I did inspect the sloppage plate and all the fasteners were tight.  I have a feeling that timing cover won't be much fun.  

 

4.  What is the harm of using stop leak?  It may not be what a mechanic would do but, I am not a mechanic. Yes, I am a little concerned taking something apart that I am not comfortable with.  (I am leaning toward stop leak and more talcum powder.)

 

As always, thanks for the advice. 

And stop leak wont help you become one. Dont even let the thought of using stop leak cross your mind.

Font timing cover on a big block isnt that technical even for a hobbie mechanic. Besides you have all of us to help:)

Drop the oil into a clean container and reuse it, pull and replace the front timing cover and use one of the later metal gaskets and it'll never leak again and while you have the tools there pull the whole bottom off the engine and change all the gaskets on the Roper plate and sump. 

Lets go!!

 

Ciao

[Lucky Phil]

thanks Docc.  

 

I never thought about sandwich-ing the Roper plate.

Are you saying your Roper plate has only 1 gasket fitted?

 

Ciao

[LowRyter]

 

thanks Docc.  

 

I never thought about sandwich-ing the Roper plate.

Are you saying your Roper plate has only 1 gasket fitted?

 

Ciao

 

 

The PO installed the plate.  I've never taken it off.  I did check that the fasteners were tight when I serviced the bike a few weeks ago.

 

I was just confused why it would need two gaskets if I were to service it.

 

BTw, if I take the timing cover off, do I have to remove the rotor on the alternator?  

[Scud]

Yes - rotor comes off.

 

To remove the timing cover, you will need to get a bunch of stuff out the way first -  horns, voltage regulator, etc. You will need to remove the stator, and then the rotor. Be sure to store them together so they do not de-magnetize. I think there are some detailed threads here about replacing the cover. Perhaps one by Czakky?

 

You could separate this into two smaller projects, depending on where you believe the leak is coming from. I would suspect the timing cover gasket as the source, rather than the sump gaskets. But you risk duplicating some work if you choose this approach.

[LowRyter]

ooh boy.  Thanks Scud.  

 

I am not going to attempt it.  Sounds like frustration and two days of lying on the cold garage floor.  And an unknown for my ability to complete it and the outcome for success. 

 

At worst I can live with it.

 

I did a clean up and took Docc's advice and checked the allen heads on the timing cover.  One was a little loose.  I'll respray it with powder along all the seams and give it a ride.