IOM project part 3

[rich46]

Hello Again,

 

We just got back from racing at Willow Springs (Southern California Desert for those on the right coast) racing with AHMRA.  Good fun nice folks and more learning.

 

It was rather difficult to get any real good lap time as the wind was rather errrrr,  strong would be an understatement.  If I heard correctly we were dealing with winds in the 40 to 45 MPH range and the bike has a full fairing so that even added to the trouble.

 

Willow Springs is a great place to work on over all set up so we focused on that.  Wade got down to a few 43's and for our class that puts us about 5 sec. off a competitive time.  There were no bikes that would really run in our class so we didn't have anyone to compare with other than by lap times for our class with no real idea how the wind was effecting us time wise.

 

We did find that we were a tad stiff on the rear springs so two new pair are on order from RaceTech.  Mat Wiley at R/T has helped with building forks and springs for the Island and the bike has always worked quite well it just seems to be a bit on the hard side for tracks as rough as Willow Springs.  This will also be a help for any racing on the IOM type road courses where they're more like a paved MotoX track.

 

By the way the feed back about our oil blow-by at Daytona was a great help.  We took all the input from this tech section and that which came via PM and with all your help; not a spec of oil at Willow Springs.

 

I do need to ask some more advise.  Maybe Wades strongest (he's an avid flat tracker) part of racing is his starts.  Problem is he's getting clutch slip coming off the starts.  The clutch does not slip after the first 150 yards , just the start.  Any ideas, suggestions or maybe a clutch that is better than what OEM bits we are using now.  I was told that OE would be fine but that seems to not be true with this engine.  Ed at GuzziPower has given us an engine with plenty of HP so now we look to controlling same .  So any advise would be a help.

 

Cheers for now riding season is almost here so enjoy,

 

Rich

[Baldini]

Alternative clutches:

RAM - Single plate kit w alloy flywheel.

Transkontinental - no longer available I think.

Lightened stock flywheel & ring gear (u using a starter motor?)

 

What power does your engine make? Is clutch OK? I have had no experience with v powerful motors/stock clutch, but I'm surprised you can't get it to work.

 

You probably know the following people? if not just Google search - all are experienced w fast Guzzis & could help:

mtiberio ran Transkontinental: see  http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/transkontinental-clutch.6393

Pete Roper, Martin Harvey (Australia), Todd Egan (Guzzitech), mike Rich (USA). Amadeo Castellani (Raceco UK - now works w cars - but massive knowledge), Jim Blomley (think u can get him at Quill exhausts) (UK).

Peter Hindley raced a 1100 Sport on IOM a few years back: http://www.guzzipower.com/TT/HindleyTT.html

 

Full of admiration for your project!  I've done a fair few IOM laps on my old Tonti, but never raced there. The mountain is a real test for breather system: mine failed big time one year, delighting my Fireblade mate who figured I'd finally killed the old thing when I disappeared in a cloud of smoke... just cleaned it up & carried on...

 

Good luck.

 

KB

 

[Chuck]

 

 

not a spec of oil at Willow Springs.

[Lucky Phil]

Hello Again,

 

We just got back from racing at Willow Springs (Southern California Desert for those on the right coast) racing with AHMRA.  Good fun nice folks and more learning.

 

It was rather difficult to get any real good lap time as the wind was rather errrrr,  strong would be an understatement.  If I heard correctly we were dealing with winds in the 40 to 45 MPH range and the bike has a full fairing so that even added to the trouble.

 

Willow Springs is a great place to work on over all set up so we focused on that.  Wade got down to a few 43's and for our class that puts us about 5 sec. off a competitive time.  There were no bikes that would really run in our class so we didn't have anyone to compare with other than by lap times for our class with no real idea how the wind was effecting us time wise.

 

We did find that we were a tad stiff on the rear springs so two new pair are on order from RaceTech.  Mat Wiley at R/T has helped with building forks and springs for the Island and the bike has always worked quite well it just seems to be a bit on the hard side for tracks as rough as Willow Springs.  This will also be a help for any racing on the IOM type road courses where they're more like a paved MotoX track.

 

By the way the feed back about our oil blow-by at Daytona was a great help.  We took all the input from this tech section and that which came via PM and with all your help; not a spec of oil at Willow Springs.

 

I do need to ask some more advise.  Maybe Wades strongest (he's an avid flat tracker) part of racing is his starts.  Problem is he's getting clutch slip coming off the starts.  The clutch does not slip after the first 150 yards , just the start.  Any ideas, suggestions or maybe a clutch that is better than what OEM bits we are using now.  I was told that OE would be fine but that seems to not be true with this engine.  Ed at GuzziPower has given us an engine with plenty of HP so now we look to controlling same .  So any advise would be a help.

 

Cheers for now riding season is almost here so enjoy,

 

Rich

I don't think your clutch issue is to do with the current clutch not being able to handle your current torque or power, it's something else.

If it was too weak to handle the output it would be slipping in the higher gears at peak torque.

 

Ciao

[swooshdave]

Sounds more like a Wades the problem, not the clutch.

[rich46]

Thanks for the feed back !  All the minds really do help.  Each idea is more information and as with the oil problem allows us to come up with workable answers.

 

KB:  Thank you for the people and companies.  We will contact them to make sure we end up with the best bits.  Three years ago Wade popped an engine on the Island (one of the faster spots) a rod bolt broke and the internals vacated between the barrels and head.  Oiled the whole bike as the leak was above the catch pan.  When the corner marshals got to him all he could say was "glad to be here and alive" .  We in fact headed over to Leads picked up and engine  and made the race.

 

Thanks again.

 

Chuck: True that NO OIL ! the only oil was on the front of the motorbike from guys other than us.

 

swooshdave :  Actually Wade's a great starter may be his strongest attribute.  Our thinking now is that it's a mechanical issue of some sort.  Like linkage binding when you first disengage the clutch.

 

LP :  We do agree is most likely not Wade or the clutch itself.  We ; as I said to Dave are thinking it is most likely mechanical as in linkage or improper parts (engagement rod) or maybe something is out of spec.

 

Anyway thank you all !  As with the other teething problems we will get it solved.  We are working toward Phillips Island Classic  next January as it's a place that the rider has done quite well on side cars and knows which way the corners go.

 

Cheers

[motortouring]

 

 

 

not a spec of oil at Willow Springs.

 

Do you know (or have a good hunch) what the essential improvement is?

[motortouring]

About the slipping clutch.

 

I have had slipping clutches in two situations.

1. Full power at 140km/h. Reason: oil on one of the clutch plates from a leaking gearbox or crankshaft bearing

2. At low speed in first gear when leaving a parking. Reason excessive wear of the splined clutch "gear". The plates more or less get stuck on the gear.

This last one sounds a bit like your description.

 

 

As I recall the drive-train of your racer is based on early eighties Tonti (LeMans3). If you have original clutch, it is the one with the bigger trapezoid splines. These gears typically have the behaviour as I mention undr 2.

 

Newer models have other gears. https://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/Clutch/New-Version/Clutch-Gear-MG-big-Model-long-spline-version-1-pcs::1083.html

You have to change the clutch plates as well as the gear pattern is different.

 

For side cars that have problems with slipping clutches at take off, we tend to use Surflex clutch discs. The grip is higher, but on a solo bike it is biting to much to get a smooth clutch control.

https://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/Clutch/New-Version/Clutch-disc-MG-big-model-new-version-Surflex::1084.html

 

My 50 cents