Prepurchase questions from a Guzzi neophyte.

[BMEPdoc]

Hello folks,

After many years of having my motorcycling interests piqued, I'm teetering on the threshold of Guzzi ownership once locating one which suits my debilitating OCD'idness, however - I do have some concerns which I'm certain your collective experiences shall easily quell.

 

Firstly, I've read through thread after thread until my eyes bled and my head throbbed in my quest to research several points of interest. Information fatigue sets in and I may be reading precisely what I was seeking yet somehow the resulting potpourri of cumulative data numbs my ability to ascertain anything useful. Perhaps, I'm just getting older and its more difficult to pick out the lyrics from the noise, I don't know, but here goes:

 

 Currently, my stable of street mounts includes 2 Aprilia RSV's which I enjoy immensely on those days where a brisk sortie on one of the wonderful local (and oft times not so local) mountain roads here provides more therapy than any shrink could, and 2 BMW boxers - one, the 12S is an decidedly spicier albeit not as comfortable contraption as my BCR prep 11S. I suppose comfort, as anything else - is subjective, but also know one's physical core strength, overall health and general conditioning are major denominators in that assessment. I've clicked off several 500 mile plus days through the years on - ALL of my machines - so recruiting even a dedicated sport bike as a long distance machine is nothing new to me. Just as I've read with many of you - I'm passionate about my machines and exercise them as often as time allows which lately... is pretty often.

 

Anyhow, the Guzzi's I'm currently mulling over are the various V11 iterations from the naked and flyscreened sport to the faired LeMans and all of the colorfully nomenclatured models in between. I'm now leaning towards a flyscreened sport though at this point that may change depending on what shows up. My questions:

 

Which bikes are prone to the transmission shift spring failure and housing cracking issues? This is particularly of interest to me as I was stranded in the middle of nowhere on my 11S when the trans input shaft decided to machine its way through its splined clutch hub to the point of no splines left for engagement. Not fun. It's all sorted now and I don't believe that can ever happen again after an updated fully broached and extended hub disc was installed.

 

Just last week I took the same bike, the BCR prep up through death valley and surrounding areas and marveled at how easily it clicks off mile after 100 -120 mph mile, and would endlessly - until either running out of fuel or the law intervened. I've owned the bike since new and it now has 98k+ miles. In that time, aside from the clutch issue, it's been absolutely stellar in every respect. Oil consumption is negligible between its 3K OCI's, regardless of how its ridden. Even though I check valves every 7500 they've required only 2 adjustments in 15 years of ownership. Interestingly, the same holds true for the Rotax V990 powered Aprilia's as well. Both platforms show obscenely stable valvetrains. What can I expect with an V11 and is it as capable a high speed cruising performer?

 

Looking forward to your replies as well as becoming an active contributor/participant.

 

-doc

[bbolesaz]

Nice case of MBS you got there.

 

I have a Sport Scura (flyscreen sport in black).  I find it great on Arizona's highways in the mountains.  It really loves a high speed sweeping corner. AZ-87 up to Payson it is really in its element. Or AZ-89A to Yarnell.  Pretty good on the tight stuff also like US-191. Not so good for freeway cruising.

 

If I could adapt a throttle keep to it, it's freeway cruising score would improve dramatically.  Some higher bars would be nice also.  Oddly enough, I find the seat very comfortable for hours on end.  I must have an Italian butt.

 

My bike has the spring about to snap, the clutch about to explode, etc, etc.  I've source all of the parts to fix all of the potential failures, but so far, I can't seem to stop riding it long enough to put it up on the shop lift.  Run 'er till she blows !

[swooshdave]

After all these years there are very few issues that haven't been identified and all the ones that have been identified seem to have solutions.

 

But it takes enthusiastic owners to enable the resolution of issues and there are no shortage of knowledgeable and talented owners in the V11 Sport community.

 

I would just pick the model that fancies you the most, buy it, ride it and fix known issues as you see fit. There is enough information here to guide you along. They certainly have made my experience nothing but enjoyable and less stressful as I know what could potentially go wrong and how to fix it. It's the unknown problems that would make an ownership less fun.

[vtwins4life]

From reading your post, you pretty much described my old 1992 Yamaha FJ1200. You want a bike to do 120 all day long, revel in the sweepers and basically not worry much about maintenance or surprise issues ? That's the one. 

 

But, you want a V11. Hey I get it. I don't ride an FJ any more and the siren song of that Guzzi big twin is really hard to shake once it gets into your soul. You seem to know your bikes and aren't afraid to get dirty - you'll do fine on a V11. Yeah it'll be flogged if that's what you ask of it and it'll certainly do "the ton" with little effort. It may have a few more issues that you might like, but you'll overlook those every time you swing a leg over it and hear it roar. 

 

I have the wonky shift spring, a likely cracked case (leaks some fluid on the exhaust) and a slipping clutch. And I still cant wait to ride it as much as I possibly can. The EV is just sitting idle now...sad but true. 

 

As others have said and you've noted - all of the bike's flaws have been painstakingly laid bare on the interwebs. Go in with your eyes open. And come out of the corners with your mouth open too..in a huge smile. 

 

VT4L

[docc]

Welcome, -doc !

 

You didn't mention your love of voltmeters, polished wrenches, and (dare I say it?) . . . hammers . . . 

 

I suppose a V11 Moto Guzzi might like more of your attention than the Beemers and Aprilias. Maybe some of us just like to fuss with things.

 

While spring failures *might* be more common with the 2002, it has been reported with later models (some 2003 are simply "holdover" '02s). It seems the early (1999-2001) RedFrame Sports and Rosso Mandello don't eat their shift springs, but "may" be more prone to the case crack. Broken cases have been really rare.

 

If those issues concern you, look for an early RedFrame Sport and install a mid-frame support plate from the 1100 Sport. (The plate won't fit the later frames). Installing a Chuck-Made Super-Spring will likely solve the shift spring worries forever. 

 

Best of luck and good hunting!

 

(Hey, watch this thread for V11 that get spotted for sale: https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18375&p=232915)

[docc]

Oh, yeah, be aware there are two styles of "flyscreen Sport," one with the screen and gauges fork mounted ( "Naked" like the early RedFrames) and the other with the screen and gauges mounted on a frame extension (Ballabio, Coppa Italia, Café Sport).

[bbolesaz]

The fork mounted one is SOOO much better looking !

[Chuck]

Agreed. 

To the other questions, sure, the V11S will cruise at hyper legal speeds all day. They are *not* full on sport bikes, but very capable Sport touring bikes with as good of an engine "feel" as there is. If I were looking, I'd look for an Ohlins equipped bike. They don't bring that much more on the used market.  

That would be Scura, Rosso and Nero Corsa (LeMans fairing) Cafe sport, (I think) and Coppa Italia. I would put the Unbreakable Pawl Spring on either. Available from Scud.

[Scud]

High desert = easy access to Southern Sierra Nevadas and other fabulous mountain roads.  

 

I've ridden naked, bar-mounted flyscreen, and LeMans fairing versions. I like the flyscreen on my Scura the best. The Ohlins suspension is better than the Marzocchi/Sachs combo, but the Marzocchi forks with almost any upgraded shock is still a great suspension.

 

The 2001 and earlier models (aka Red-Frames) are more likely to have a cracked transmission if they do not have the special bracket. But they also have a smaller rear tire and shorter wheelbase, which makes them turn quicker than the later models. By comparison, the 2002 and later models (black frames) could be called more stable. 

 

V11s like sharing garage space with Husqvarnas, but they kick BMWs out of the garage. At least that has been my experience.

[footgoose]

Swooshdave's suggestion is perfect from my perspective. With a collection of such great bikes in your garage, the notion that you're looking at a Guzzi hints something may be lacking with the others. BTDT, and what the others lack, the V11 has in spades. Welcome.

[swooshdave]

Do we have a poll somewhere so we can actually track the transmission crack? I bet even with this enthusiastic small sample size it’s less than 2%.

 

As for the red frames being shorter and quicker turning let’s be real, the dimensional difference is minuscule and none of them like tight corners.

 

But if there’s one thing they all have is they make you want to ride them when you aren’t.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scud]

Yup - all the V11s I've ridden have a certain raw, elemental presence that makes them great fun.

 

But having had a Greenie with Ohlins/Marzocchi (red-frame) and a Scura with Ohlins forks and shock (black frame) side by side for a while, I'll stick to my assertion that there is an appreciable difference between the bikes. That aside, I feel confident that I am still faster on the Husqvarna 701 in tight corners, especially if the pavement is poor.

 

And yeah, I think the cracked cases are pretty rare. It's just that when they happen it's a time-consuming repair. But if you're patient, you can pick a complete used tranny for $400-500.

[Scud]

From reading your post, you pretty much described my old 1992 Yamaha FJ1200. You want a bike to do 120 all day long, revel in the sweepers and basically not worry much about maintenance or surprise issues ? That's the one. 

 

I have the wonky shift spring, a likely cracked case (leaks some fluid on the exhaust) and a slipping clutch. And I still cant wait to ride it as much as I possibly can. The EV is just sitting idle now...sad but true. 

 

 

I had one of the original FJ1100s, it was a beast. Got me through college with my license (barely). Sold it to get an airhead BMW and have mostly been on twins and thumpers since then. But I feel tempted every time I see a clean, low mile FJ1100 for sale.

 

As for your tranny - chances are good that it is just a bad seal. Here's something I wrote up about resealing the tranny:  https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20021

[Chuck]

 

 

I've ridden naked, bar-mounted flyscreen, and LeMans fairing versions. I like the flyscreen on my Scura the best. 

 

Yep. Me, too..

[BMEPdoc]

Thank you for the welcome and illuminating responses. 

 

As is the case with countless intrepid motorcycle enthusiasts, akin to an mechanical smorgasboard, I've sampled a fair number of machines to be left empirically satiated by their attributes and weaknesses. As you all know, we can read specifications and the application of them as they define the dynamics of a particular machine to our hearts content but only we, ourselves, can ultimately define whether that certain je ne sais quoi is present.  

 

My current stable of machines exist because they talk to a part of me which truly enjoys what they have to offer every time I swing a leg over them. I settled on keeping them not because of some wordsmiths overembellished hyperbole, no, but that feeling of just being right for me for the journey I'm about to embark upon.

 

In relatively recent years I've had both, the pleasure and displeasure of owning several, what  - for me - were overhyped machines. I suppose just as is the case with others too   - I bought the koolaid so to speak.  A couple of recent examples would be my Ducati Multi-Strada with the highy touted skyhook suspenders. When it works it's as if it were raided from an area 51 hangar - almost too good for humans to be privvy to. When not, which was the case with mine - I was left so bitter I told my wife I should've bought two - one to park with the other to ram into it. Simply inexcusable to bring a 25k+ machine to market only to have so many issues - though I must admit it was the perfect blend of sophistication and bling.

 

The next would be the '15 Suzuki Hayabusa I had for a short while. An apropos personal summation analogous to the well known 'No Hat No Cattle' rebuke would be 'All Motor Nothing Else'.  

 

So disenchanted was I with this behemoth of an barely guideable, tortuous, plasticky, overpowered gizmo - I actually turned the barge around, headed back home from being en route on a ride with friends to the coast - and exchanged it for my Aprilia which resulted in immediate gratification as well as a salvaged uberfun ride. To this day I still don't know what possessed me to make that purchase. One of my rare 'momentary lapses of reason' I suppose. Anyhow, I couldn't rid myself of that mechanical cartoon of a bike too soon. 

 

To each their own echoes within the hallowed walls of motocycledom with caveat emptor its cornerstone. Not meaning to offend any of you who might own one of the examples cited. I sincerely wish upon you nothing but good times with yours. In the final analysis - we share a common bond, a thread which links us and that's our passion for motorcycles. Ah, but I digress:

 

Being so personally involved in so many things mechanica - I, myself am puzzled as to why I've yet to experience what a Guzzi has to offer. It's certainly not due to its lack of allure. Be it what it may, I'm puling the trigger on one when satisfied it at least ticks all of the right precursory boxes. I'm an according to my wife - and others who know me, certifiable nut. Things which may be acceptable to others are just inconceivable for me to understand but that's my OCD illness and IT IS an illness. A new scratch or blemish or noise as benign as it may very well be is a source of consternation for me. Its not unusual at all for me to go out to the barn in the middle of the night to either re-assess any malady or overthink a mechanical boggle. 

 

I'm currently looking at an '01 V11 flyscreened sport which appears to be very well kept.

 

I'm keenly aware that some of you are Ohlins advocates. Based on my personal experience, in some applications - I wholeheartedly concur.  In others, not so much.

 

One example is my Aprilia's. The '03 'R' and Tuono racing are fitted with Ohlins forks and shock, (another feature being radial vs axial mounted brembo's which I'll get to as well). My other RSV, the standard Mille is equipped with a Showa fork and properly valved and springed Wilber shock . I can unequivocally say my standard Mille's suspension is superior in just about every way except one:

 

It doesn't have the polished titanium nitride (TiN) gold finish forks or signature yellow shock spring to ogle - however, from a functional performance perspective proven by lap time upon lap time, the standard fare Showa forks are superior. I must qualify the above by disclosing BOTH versions were heavily reworked. The Ohlins units by famed Swedish guru Stig Petterson with the Showa rework performed by Race Tech. There's simply no comparison. The Showa's are far more supple yet offer equal if not better high speed control than their pricey ($2k reworked) Ohlins counterparts. In relaying this information to Stig, his response was a TTX 25 pressurized spring upgrade for the paltry additional sum of $2500. No thanks Stig. I'm good enough a rider to notice the difference between what it was pre-and post rework, but admittedly not so good (or willing to part with the additional $$$) as to possibly benefit in bringing the Ohlins up to the standard of a much less pricey reworked Showa.

 

Next, and in reference to the axial gold line Brembo vs radial calipers. All of the machines are fitted with genuine brembo sintered pads so there's no difference there. I suppose one would need possess Valentino Rossi-esque skills to truly notice any marked difference. I do not, nor do the admittedly superior to me rider pals who I watched lap both willow springs and buttonwillow on my bikes. 

 

So, to wrap it up. When I do find the one. The ancillaries are not as important as the obvious attention to detail and care exercised by its current owner.

 

Thank you all again in being so gracious and forthcoming. I very much look forward to being involved in future discussions - contributing, whenever I feel my input may be useful.

 

-doc