Voltage Reg and Charging Problem?

[Scud]

Here's a series of events that is making me nervous about going any serious distance on my Scura. 

 

A couple months ago she quit running 1/2 mile from home. I found a slightly deformed (melted) 30-amp fuse. Swapped relays around and was able to restart and ride home.

 

Replaced fuse, inspected various electrical connections, did some starts and stop in the garage, measured voltage at battery at idle and at 4,000 RPM (it was well over 13, but not 14 volts - can't remember exact numbers)

 

Feeling comfortable and not seeing other problems I went out for a longer ride. I quickly noticed that my tachometer failed. Pulled over, swapped relays around, checked fuse, restarted bike, still no tach. Figured the tach coincidentally failed. Continued my ride. Went about 60 miles. Had another failure and had to put her on a truck to get home.

 

Removed battery (which still had over 12 volts). Charged it with my Battery MINDer (fancy charge that has a specific AGM mode) - it's holding a charge at 12.8 after sitting for several weeks.

 

Been busy... and riding other bikes while wishing I trusted the Scura.

 

Today I reinstalled the battery and changed to different relays (I had been running the "higher-rated" Omrons with the skinny blades, but switched back to the Omrons with fatter blades which many of us have used for a long time).

 

She fired right up, and the tach magically works again. Tested the charging at idle and 4,000 (13.9v cold)

 

Went for a short ride. Tested the charging again at operating temperature and only got 13.0 volts at 4000 RPM.

 

So.....  that's a lot of detail, which I hope is enough for you electrical geniuses to advise me.

 

Is the change in charge voltage (as measured at the battery) normal between cold and hot?

 

Should I replace the regulator and do the same test (I have a new one still in box).

 

What else do you need to know?

 

I want to take her to San Felipe Mexico for fish tacos,   but I just don't trust her right now. 

[fotoguzzi]

Scud, your probably a better mechanic that me but I'll throw out a little advice anyway.

 

have you added a ground wire from the reg to block?  I don't remember about my V11 but the Tonti bikes mount the reg (and ground) through captured nuts in a bracket, not the best idea for constant ground supply.

 

white face Veglia tach? I seem to remember a dodgy ground connection inside the tach cover too..

 

your battery sounds good but tach failure was the first indication when my bike died on a trip.. turned out the regulator was not charging.  I was a dummy then, got a new battery and rode toward home .. after another 60 miles the new battery was dead.. by then it was time to put Mrs fotoguzzi in a cab to get her home.

[Scud]

I have added a supplemental ground wire from regulator case to the frame (under tank)... then from that spot on the frame directly to battery negative. To my way of thinking, this provides the best possible ground and protects the wiring loom even if the main ground to the transmission case works loose. Whereas a supplemental wire only to the case still relies on grounding through the main ground wire to tranny.

 

One bit I neglected to mention above. I have been using my Battery Minder charger (which has a desulfation mode) with the battery in the bike. I have recently learned that charging the battery on the bike is a no-no for the regulator (this information has been available, but I hadn't payed close enough attention). This is why I am now suspicious of the regulator. The Battery Minder has 2, 4, and 8 amp options. I think I accidentally used the 8 amp a while ago. This makes me wonder if that was the cause of the deformed fuse.

 

Thanks for the info on the tach. My Scura has the white-faced Veglia. I think I have read of that issue as well. When the tach goes, it could be the tach... or it could be the charging system.

[docc]

She sure doesn't seem to be charging well (should be over 14v at rpm).  Simple enough to install a known good regulator.

 

Does your Battery MINDer drop into a ~13.5v float mode with reduced amperage after the battery is at full charge?

 

But, yeah, this stern warning from my regulator supplier causes me to to disconnect the regulator while charging ("pull the fuse") . . .

[Scud]

Yup - THAT was the stern warning I saw somewhere recently. I think I may have screwed the pooch by charging the battery via the handy cable I installed. I'll swap the regulator and report back.

[czakky]

I’ll echo what foto says at the top of his post but...

 

A few things: When I started randomly losing my tach I lost my ignition too and my bike would die. Cleaned ignition switch and all has been good.

 

When two of the regs that I’ve had failed they failed by not regulating allowing over 18v back to the battery. Just my experience just throwing it out there.

 

The wiring to the stator is super hokey and needs to be inspected both at the harness to the regulator and more importantly from the windings coming from the actual stator have super weak solder joints and not much supporting the wires.

[Scud]

Inspected stator - connections seem solid.

 

Installed Electrosport ESR515 voltage regulator (the plug-and-play one).

 

However, I did find that the female ends for the bullet connectors for the two yellow wires on the loom are quite hard, and they fit very loose.

 

 

They are even looser with new regulator. But I taped them up tight and started the bike. It's charging at only 13v. And I noticed that the connections on the yellow wires got much warmer than the other connectors - and quickly. So... methinks there is some arcing going on in there and that I need different types of connectors. Does that make sense?

 

 

[czakky]

How are the wires at the stator? Im not saying it isn’t those connectors but definitely worth looking at the stator too.

[czakky]

Less voltage = more amps? (Correct me if I’m wrong sparkies) So if there is resistance than yes it does make sense.

[Lucky Phil]

Can you use a pair of pliers scudd and squeeze the female connectors down a little to improve the snugness?

 

Ciao

[SoCal Kevin]

Hi Scud,

 

As it happens I changed the regulator today, but with the ElectroSport ESR510.  Same issues with the yellow bullet connectors.  I used a thin bladed screwdriver to spread them out for a tighter fit.  if you look closely, the male bullet has a split that you can wiggle a screwdriver into and carefully spread it open.

 

My charging voltage when completed was around 13.8V at idle and 14.2-14.4 at anything over idle.

 

Good luck.

 

Kevin

[Steve S]

It's probably just the 30 amp fuse and holder that is the problem, once they get a bit loose and dirty the fuse overheats but does not blow, clean and tighten the holder clips fit a new fuse, or do away with the fuse, when I've had this problem on other bikes I cut out the fuse and connect the wires together, ran a bike for 2 years like this, the Nero I have now has been no problem so far

[MartyNZ]

A couple months ago she quit running 1/2 mile from home. I found a slightly deformed (melted) 30-amp fuse. Swapped relays around and was able to restart and ride home.

I think you had more than one problem.

A melted 30A fuse (but not blown) can ONLY be caused by electrical resistance between the fuse holder contacts and the fuse. Cleaning the contacts, then fitting the fuse with dielectric grease will help. A maxi fuse holder is better, or you could use a CB like Docc did. See https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19672

The connections of the yellow wires can be replaced by crimp connectors & heat shrink sleeves to make better connections. On my bike the wires are long enough that I could cut and re-terminate several times if required, so I used permanent crimp sleeves.

 

 

The fuse melting, and bad connections on the yellow wires will reduce charging current, so the battery will discharge over time.

 

However, a bad relay can stop the engine without warning. Those mini relays seem to be short lived, so carrying spares, and discarding any troublesome relays seems to work for me.

[Scud]

I expanded the male pins on the yellow wires of the new regulator and cleaned the female connectors. But it still doesn't seem to make a good fit. Started the bike and still got 13v charging at the battery.

 

So the Scura missed another ride today. Instead, I rode the Husky over the Main Divide Road (dirt) on Saddleback mountain to a fathers day gathering in Orange County. 

 

I think that this weekend I will install a Maxi 30-amp fuse holder and figure out stronger connectors for the voltage regulator (mine are deformed a bit but not as bad as Marty's picture. The bullets really do seem like a problem. I should probably pull the tank and inspect the rest of the wiring loom... and while I'm there, I could bell the intake snorkels on the airbox to get more induction noise.

 

And in OC, I finally got to ride my nephew's MV Augusta F4. Wow. Love the sound of that engine under full load. And it's fairly quick... 

 

Kevin - how's the Greenie treating you?

[LowRyter]

I just replaced the VR on the Greenie recently.

 

I was talking to an old hand Guzzi guy and he said those Ducati VRs were good for about 20k miles.  I told him my Sport just rolled over 45k and my EV has 65k on them.  He said that he'd bet they both were replaced before I bought them. 

 

Anyway, I guess I'll prepare for the EV to fail next.