Voltage Reg and Charging Problem?

[Tomchri]

Any input is apreciated,, will check out some more,  Electrosport to ( brain hurts,,,Mosfet, tyristor, scr ) before ordering. I like the idea with wiring straight to the battery,, dont have a charge light on mine.  32F this morning  .  Parts, thats another story    

Cheers tom

[footgoose]

following with interest...... nice hammer Tom

[Kiwi_Roy]

It seems to me this thread covers just about every charging fault.

I will go over a couple of faults,

 

Overheating the 30 Amp fuse and the two yellow bullet connectors is caused by resistance (bad conections)

A series regulator can only decide to start charging at the start of a cycle, once it turns on it's committed for the whole half cycle, we know the alternator Voltage can go sky high.

Actually its not really that the joints are bad its just that the current with a series regulator can be so high, it's only limited by the power the alternator can put out, I suspect it peaks well over 40 amps for part of the cycle

Heat is Current squared x resistance just for example a couple of different currents, lets assume we have 0.01 Ohms resistance in one of the joints

20 x 20 x .01 Ohms = 4 Watts

40 x 40 x .01 = 16 Watts  twice as much current but four times the heat

A shunt regulator on the other hand can turn off at any part of the cycle so as soon as the battery Voltage is high enough the regulator shorts out the alternator and the 30 Amp fuse is spared

 

Using separate light relays to remove the load from the OEM headlight relays as Lucky Phil did is a no brainer, it ensures the Ducati Energy gets a stable Voltage reference, Actually a couple of times my regulators stopped and I got home by running a wire direct from the battery to pick up the male pin effectively making it a direct connect regulator, can't leave it like that because it draws about 15 milliamps which would quickly flatten the battery.

 

The Ducati Energy must have a good ground connection, it has a tiny black wire all the way from the regulator case to the battery, its not good enough, those big current spikes act on that small wire creating large Voltage drops which effectively reduce the output.

 

Lately I have been suggesting using an aluminum strap from the regulator case to a timing cover bolt (same metal all the way) and it could look quite neat.

 

I used an Electrosport on mine and had no further problems (if I remembered to replace the fuse at the start of season) but I think I would go with a Shindengen next time only because I don't like the secrecy of Electrosport.

 

I no longer have the need for either type with my 72 Eldorado and 06 Griso

 

Good Luck

[swooshdave]

Like I said before Electrosport was very forthcoming with which of their regulators are what kind, you must have just got the wrong person.

 

SCR = Bad, they get too hot and WILL burn out at some point, usually when you don't want them to.

MOSFET = Also a shunt like the SCR but are so much more efficient that they don't get hot (or as hot) and will last way longer.

Series = As Roy said it has it's drawbacks. I believe the benefit is that it "turns off" the alternator so you no longer have that drain on the engine (it takes a little but of HP to power the alternator). I'm not sure how or if it would actually work with the V11 Sport alternator. Given the availability of the MOSFET style I'm not sure it's worth the investigation.

 

The stock regulator is SCR and has the charge light function. If you get a MOSFET expect to do the wiring yourself (connectors) and you will no longer have a charge light. Because the regulator is more reliable you can get away without the light but a voltmeter is recommended just so you can keep an eye on the overall charging system.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Swishdave,

I believe the reason the SCR type burns out is because of the flakey Voltage reference, the Voltage drop gets a little too high so the regulator compensates firing the SCRs until they never turn off. This is particularly bad on the 01 with two relay contacts in series.

Eventually the diodes overheat and melt the solder and the leads drop off, I have photos somewhere.

I'm sure the Mosfet regs are much better and I would avoid anything that's a direct replacement for the DE.

 

I'm glad Electrosport are more forthcoming, I never had a problem with mine but they refused to divulge what principle it works on.

 

I agree, a Voltmeter is a great confidence boost, just like the oil pressure gauge, highly recommended if you aren't running a Roper plate.

[Tomchri]

Will read Roys reply another 20times  , and  Swoosdaves to,, anything could happen. . Shindengen SH 020AA ?

Cheers tom.

[Kiwi_Roy]

If you decide to fit headlight relays and don't want to run an extra supply from the battery to the headlight bucket consider tapping into the feed for the ignition switch. I can't recall what size the wire is on the VIIs but on most Guzzis that's the fattest wire on the bike, Some of the older bikes don't even fuse the ignition wire, I always add a fuse at the battery something like 30 or 40 Amps but the VII shows fuse 2

 

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_EV_Catalytic.gif

[Tomchri]

Just saying I ordered the Shindengen SH 847 rectifier today,, so look for smokesignals in a month or so  .

IPA time

Cheers tom.

[Tomchri]

Just recieved the SH 847, Yes its big, probably fit a Peterbuilt better. Hope not the size of the cables will scare the rest of the wiring.

Original position is NO. Connectors on the rectifier way to big.

Wish there was enough space under the plastic cover, no. Enough air inn there ?, will put some spacer underneath the rectifier .

Instruments will cover some.

Underneath the batterytray with some brackets, thats the 2positions so fare.

Put my new 30amp circut breaker in the seat bracket.

Now its D IPA time

Cheers tom.

 

Sent fra min SM-G903F via Tapatalk

[al_roethlisberger]

So, curious, should we interpret this thread to mean that the OEM regulator is doomed to fail .... and as preventive maintenance we should probably plan to replace it with a MOSFET unit proactively?

 

Did we ever decide which brand and model was the best fit and quality?  Seems like the SH 847 is popular in this and the other thread:   https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20106

[swooshdave]

Regulators, due to the fact that they work by generating heat are going to fail at some point.

 

So you either treat them as a wear item and replace them with a plug and play option or you replace it with a MOSFET which should last longer, although you may have wiring and mounting issues.

 

Just a case of calculating out the cost/effort/miles ratio for yourself.

[swooshdave]

http://www.vintageconnections.com/Products/Detail/151?fbclid=IwAR14g6bIYTXMPj2ZtP4rxBwrKcYqPBIRg8_WoVFkWkr_7oLlRCH-86Zw_xc

 

This guy I know now has the plugs available for the Shindengen type regulators.

 

[Kiwi_Roy]

So, curious, should we interpret this thread to mean that the OEM regulator is doomed to fail .... and as preventive maintenance we should probably plan to replace it with a MOSFET unit proactively?

 

Did we ever decide which brand and model was the best fit and quality?  Seems like the SH 847 is popular in this and the other thread:   https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20106

I believe the OEM Ducati Energia problems are caused by the Voltage signal from the headlight relay, its not stable, the Voltage drop can vary from ~ 0.6 to over 1 Volt. to nothing at all depending on the state of the relays.

If you look at some of the later bikes they have a direct connect system.

 

Look at this 2004, not a DE I wonder if they ever have regulator problems

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_V11_Sport_Catalytic.gif

[al_roethlisberger]

 

So, curious, should we interpret this thread to mean that the OEM regulator is doomed to fail .... and as preventive maintenance we should probably plan to replace it with a MOSFET unit proactively?

 

Did we ever decide which brand and model was the best fit and quality?  Seems like the SH 847 is popular in this and the other thread:   https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20106

I believe the OEM Ducati Energia problems are caused by the Voltage signal from the headlight relay, its not stable, the Voltage drop can vary from ~ 0.6 to over 1 Volt. to nothing at all depending on the state of the relays.

If you look at some of the later bikes they have a direct connect system.

 

Look at this 2004, not a DE I wonder if they ever have regulator problems

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_V11_Sport_Catalytic.gif

 

 

 

Interesting, I have no idea, but perhaps worth some thought.

 

Here's the V11 Sport wiring diagram for reference:  http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1999_V11_sport.gif

 

 

 

So along that line of thought, are you suggesting would one provide reference power from F3 directly to the Ducati Energia regulator instead of from the wire that from the 1999 diagram seems to among other things power the brake light switches?

[gstallons]

http://www.vintageconnections.com/Products/Detail/151?fbclid=IwAR14g6bIYTXMPj2ZtP4rxBwrKcYqPBIRg8_WoVFkWkr_7oLlRCH-86Zw_xc

 

This guy I know now has the plugs available for the Shindengen type regulators.

 

What type of plier / tool is used to crimp these terminals ?