Going back to stock airbox from pods

[BMEPdoc]

Hi folks,

As some of you know, I've recently acquired an '01 V11 Sport on which the PO fitted K&N pods - I'm no fan of these things as I've rarely, actually never, found any gain. On the contrary, all manner of ride-ability issues from throttle response to flat spots in the RPM curve are usually the case based on my experience. Unless armed with the required resources and skills it's pretty tough to out-do the mothership. Fortunately everything removed in the retrofit process was saved and boxed. In preparation of reverting to OE, I removed the tank and set out all of the parts (which were conveniently labeled) to get started. I quickly discovered the airbox would not set down properly onto the frame, pump/filter area . Upon further exam I noticed the PO appeared to have done something with fuel hose length and/or fuel pump/filter bracket as it just isn't located properly. The current configuration just isn't correct and this is turning out to be more than a take-off-put-back-on issue.

 

Do any of you have a detailed photo or series of photos showing that portion of the frame spine/fuel system?  Many thanks in advance.

 

regards

[r3datom9]

If you are interested in keeping them on, I have a fuel map from my bike that was properly dynoed with exhaust and aftermarket crossover.  It runs like a scalded ape, much better than my previous V11 with stock box.  You would need a power commander fitted though.

[stewgnu]

Seems like you could swing it either way- there’s guys running pods on here and also plenty of info on stock set-up so happy days! Hope you get it sorted, mine’s a later model with internal fuely bits but i wonder if the air-boxes are the same?? There’s a few runs of cables/pipeses over the spine, all of which could foul the box...

[docc]

Hi folks,

As some of you know, I've recently acquired an '01 V11 Sport on which the PO fitted K&N pods - I'm no fan of these things as I've rarely, actually never, found any gain. On the contrary, all manner of ride-ability issues from throttle response to flat spots in the RPM curve are usually the case based on my experience. Unless armed with the required resources and skills it's pretty tough to out-do the mothership. Fortunately everything removed in the retrofit process was saved and boxed. In preparation of reverting to OE, I removed the tank and set out all of the parts (which were conveniently labeled) to get started. I quickly discovered the airbox would not set down properly onto the frame, pump/filter area . Upon further exam I noticed the PO appeared to have done something with fuel hose length and/or fuel pump/filter bracket as it just isn't located properly. The current configuration just isn't correct and this is turning out to be more than a take-off-put-back-on issue.

 

Do any of you have a detailed photo or series of photos showing that portion of the frame spine/fuel system?  Many thanks in advance.

 

regards

Right . . . so, your PO has relocated the fuel pump on top of the frame instead of its original location under the left side of the frame (before the filter).  Probably in an effort to deal with (or concern over) "vapor lock". The long, heat-shielded feed line further supports this.

 

While the tank is off, have a go at the Tank Off Maintenance Checklist.   It is a compendium of this community's experience with issues that should be seen-to with the tank off.

[docc]

Okay, here is an image from the right showing the location of the filter (WIX for Isuzu Trooper), relative to the airbox and the two vent/overflow hoses for the nipples on the bottom of the tank (co-joined in this case).

>click on image for full size

And another without the airbox (or gearbox, or swingarm, or wheel, but with Emmy Lou Harris. Which makes everything alright. ):

[docc]

"One of" the original, early V11 fuel pump locations (viewed from the left looking forward):

[docc]

Be aware of routing and proper shielding of the fuel supply line from the petcock to the pump.

Scud has this covered in his "How to Make a Fuel Supply Line" thread.

[BMEPdoc]

PERFECT!

 

Thanks docc! I'm envious of your huge photos. My attempts in posting photos are quashed by an "file too large" prompt which then require my photo editor hence my puny pic. Is there some clandestine setting I'm not aware of somewhere? By the way, it appears we share a similar taste in music. Just finished hearing her and Knopfler "If this is goodbye" before logging in. Now hearing Etta, 'At last'....good stuff this.  

 

r3datum9, I'm hoping to get an opinion on how well my bike is currently running. My curiosity got the better part of me so I just started pulling things apart just to take a look at how the Italians crafted this thing but am now in the process of reassembly. I've contacted Scud to arrange a meeting so he can take mine for a spin and assess if it's up to par or not. Mine has no aftermarket crossover but does have the Mistral cans. I'm a pretty quick study, so this kind of interaction with like minded enthusiasts is wonderful, but thanks for the offer - as more unfolds I'll be in an more informed position to know if your program is suitable. 

 

-doc  

[docc]

Too cool! Welcome to The Asylum! I already can't tell you from the other inmates  on the ward . . . 

 

A couple links for you, Sir:

 

Posting photos is best done with hosting. Best hosting site, ever (what I use):

 

https://imgzeit.com/tour

 

As for music, our Chief Whip, Jaap, started this great thread to post what we listen to:

 

"What do you listen to? Share your faves."

 

I have enjoyed,  and learned of, so much great music there!     

 

[footgoose]

plus 1 on welcome, Emmy Lou, and Imgzeit

 

V11 Sport prototype

 

[r3datom9]

One more thing...it seems with the pods I don't suffer from any of the vapor lock issues that I had on my 01 Sport.  Definitely a lot more breathing room down there with the stock box taking up most of the space.  Looks like much better space for air to circulate.

 

Maybe some others can confirm if this true or not.

[BMEPdoc]

I don't doubt the additional circulation afforded by the airbox removal and relocation of the fuel pump is helpful in minimizing, or even alleviating any vapor lock issues. It's the ability to tune out any consequential running maladies, particularly those resulting from replacing a tuned length runner/pressure wave optimized area airbox ('system') with an open element filter pod. I do not particularly care for signal input spoofers or gizmos (i.e. power commander, variable NCT resistors, thermistors, etc) which fool an ECU. Much preferring ignition/fuel maps tailored to a specific application. A logical choice obviously, though also can be cost prohibitive.

 

I understand the price point factor and can't argue with fudging F/A ratios to stave off destructive detonation when breathing (air pump) characteristics have been altered. A cost effective solution is often a spoofer of some kind. Not optimal by any means but rather somewhat acceptable, if cringeworthy. Better than hole-ing a piston or whacking rings into the crankcase. Ignition tables are just as important which those piggyback devices do not address. In essence they're analagous to a band aid on ones elbow for a sore on their knee. The Alpha-N FI systems on our machines really are rather simple and I suppose I could have Marc Salvisberg (Factory Pro) break into and remap my machine on his low inertia eddy current dyno. Something to ponder if I choose to remain 'podded'.

 

Another option would be to source a map for my machine's counterpart which has undergone sufficient dyno time. Personal experience here though. I've been involved and exposed to situations where three identical vehicles with identical modifications on three identically refreshed at the same time powerplants showed a need for different maps for proper optimization. These are machines and they all have their own personalities, even when built/assembled to strictly adhered to blueprinted specifications. Would one map suit all three?...of course and they'd perform within a certain given +/-  envelope. Our envelope was narrow enough that subsequent powerplants were supported by a map averaged off of the three mules.   I digress:  

 

This being my personal experience, if a spoofer is required to bend the fuel curve to suit my machine without addressing ignition tables - I'll opt to shell out the cash in my quest to get it right every time. Not only will my machine perform better - I'll sleep better too!

 

BTW. Being OCD sucks. Just saying.

 

-doc     

[Camn]

Hi "BMEPdoc", (the Apriliaforum expert).

(V11 Scura + Aprilia RSV C.E.R. on our backyard)

 

Meinolf has spent "hundreds of hours" optimizing his V11 (with 15M ecu) and in reverse engineering the 15M "inner soul" on his "15M test board".  Interestingly, as with the RSV CER, the stock airbox seems to be a good choice.

 

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19216&page=2 (Post #17)

[BMEPdoc]

Hello to you as well Camn!

Yes, the Aprilia, Ducati, MV, and BMW forums are hangouts - particularly when I'm involved with one of them at that moment. I am now, finally - a Guzzi owner as well and just as with my other machines, I'll be frequenting this as well as other Guzzi venues absorbing all I can, as well as contributing if I feel it may benefit others. I've only been a member here a short while and already feel at home as the others here have been wonderful in helping me with whatever it is I need help with. Matter of fact just yesterday I rang 'Scud'. We'll be meeting this upcoming weekend. His valued expert and objective assessment of my machines overall performance and state of being is something I very much look forward to.    

   

Thank you also for the link, Camn. I did briefly skim through Meinolf's posts - clearly, he's invested a lot of time and effort in extracting and sharing vital empirical data as well as valuable practical experience.. All I need now is an derriere friendly perch. I have a considerable amount of research to do in order to satiate my desire to know. 

 

-doc

[docc]

Yo . . . -doc . . .

 

Go no further down the tuning hole before simply performing the :  "Decent Tune-up" 

 

It is not the >end-all-and-be-all

 

(Meinolf, and "Beard" / guzzidiag, have us covered!   )