Going back to stock airbox from pods

[BMEPdoc]

I couldn't agree more docc. We used to refer to this as verifying the machine was at Zero. It was our wordplay abbreviation of a Level II or complete maintenance service. It pertained to all consumables (i.e, air/oil/fuel fiters, spark plugs, crankcase oil) being replaced. All adjustables (i.e. valve clearance, Ignition timing, RPM, CO) checked and adjusted to manufacturer specification as required. If, after these procedures engine performance did not meet acceptable standards a series of diagnostic steps was warranted which inevitably led to the discovery of the root cause of the problem and addressed.

 

As an aside and somewhat related, which some of you may find interesting are a couple of puzzlers from days of yore which emphasize the importance of routine maintenance.

 

Many years ago within months of opening our automotive engineering and german auto service firm, my partner and I were called upon by one of our competitors to help with an unsolvable-for-them boggle. They were having a heckuva time diagnosing a hard/no start problem with an euro spec MBZ 500SL. The problem had progressively worsened until the cars owner had run out of free AAA tows. Anyhow, their techs had already burned through many diagnostic labor hours and no dice, the thing just wouldn't fire when up to operating temp after sitting for a while. Let it cool down overnight and it would light up perfectly or squirt some fuel past the metering plate in the CIS plenum and it would fire right up when at operating temp. Control pressures were checked. Everything was systematically gauged and tested and it ALL checked out within spec. Still...No Joy. We took on the challenge. After about an hour our service manager came into my office exasperated by the ordeal so I went out and took a look. I knew everything had been redundantly checked now. We had spark, fuel, compression, but no fire. While in the car cranking I happened to look at the odometer and noticed this pup had almost 500k/kms. No big wow for the big benz. Pretty common for them to run forever, or close to - particularly the dual row timing chain units. All 8 holes had decent compression numbers, not great but decent. I was poking around under the bonnet and happened to pull the dipstick discovering the oil was stinky, diesel black, and thin as vinegar. I had a hunch and immediately instructed our tech do an oil service, both my tech and service manager were puzzled. An oil service? they both asked in stereo. Just do it I repeated.

 

20 minutes later I smiled as the big benz  lit up within seconds. What I had surmised was proven to be the case. We subsequently learned the cars owner had taken delivery of the car years prior when living in Germany. After relocating to the states and having his car schlepped over, it hadn't had an oil service in who knows how many miles, and since the absurdly negligent owner lived only a few miles from his place of business it never really got up to operating temp long enough to burn off accumulated condensation and sump acids inevitably thinning the oil to negligible film strength, this resulted in inadequate vacuum due to poor ring seal which then manifested in the inability to draw open the metering plate on the CIS plenum. When cold, the cold start injector was active hence it fired. When warm it wasn't in the start loop and no-go.   

 

Just a simple oil service was the dogs knob re-establishing ring seal ergo intake tract vacuum.   

 

Not a Guzzi tale, true - but it DOES trumpet the importance of something as simple as an oil service. I have a couple more which could be delivered by Rod Serling and his accompanying theme.

 

"The 1956 Lincoln Continental MkII one could drive for miles with no fuel"

 

"The Jeep Wrangler that would mysteriously quit running only to discover a shattered distributor cap.....FIVE times"

 

-doc   

[Scud]

Thanks for bringing the bike by yesterday - she's in fabulous condition. However, she does seem sluggish at the lower revs, and she idles well and does not hiccup or pop on deceleration. She just doesn't seem very happy to putt along leisurely at 3,000rpms. She comes alive at 5-6,000. As we discussed, it sure seems worth a try to put the stock airbox back on to regain those velocity stacks and see if that improves things. I'd try the 100% stock system first - with the rubber "snorkels" as you can see in the "red-head" picture of my Champagne LeMans bike that Doc posted earlier in this thread. BTW, my Scura still has the snorkels on.

 

It's also curious that you got two spare ECUs with the bike. So we really do not know what map you're currently running. It might be worth investigating and trying it with a stock, unmodiified map. My Scura runs fine on the stock map, and I have not felt any need to mess with it (although I am curious to try Meinolf's map based on the excellent feedback it has received).

 

Later, if you feel like playing around, you could remove the snorkels and "bell" the intakes as Doc has "doc"umented elsewhere.

 

Pods do look cool, and I like seeing more of the red frame and shock. But with the stock airbox, you also get to reinstall those candy-apple green side panels.

[Camn]

I'd try the 100% stock system first - with the rubber "snorkels"

Meinolfs last comment on the air intake on the German forum / March 2018:

http://www.guzzi-forum.de/Forum/index.php?topic=42323.0

"

. . . Such changes become visible only, if the performance is measured on a test bench before/after or the effects on the lambda value are measured while riding.  I had practiced that a few years ago on a V11. There was the "doctrine" that removing the intake snorkels of the air box provides significantly better air flow. A test based on lambda values showed the opposite.  Without snorkels, lambda dropped in many throttle opening values. This means, that the air flow rate decreased and the mixture became more rich with the same amount of injection. My last modification to the snorkels was then the reshaping of the ends of the suction pipes to a bell shape, by means of hot air blower and beer bottle. And whether it was the shape or the beer, the air flow is now great .

"

I did not quite get it, if he means the "plastic pipes" themselves or the "rubber angles" in the end of the plastic pipes (what he made bell shaped).  Mine is still 100% original.  I had thought that if the "rubber angles" in the end would have a wider opening, maybe there could be a very slight "ram-air" effect.  I don't mean that the possible ram-air effect would mean much with these pipe diameters (if I remember right, on the Sport 1100 i, with the ram-air intake pipes, the real benefit was not a lot).

[docc]

"My last modification to the snorkels was then the reshaping of the ends of the suction pipes to a bell shape, by means of hot air blower and beer bottle. And whether it was the shape or the beer, the air flow is now great ." - [Meinolf]

 

I did not realize Meinolf had reshaped his intakes. He must surely be referring to the hard plastic intake, not the rubber snorkels.  The only way to reshape those with a beer bottle  would be to leave the bottle in place!

 

While I have no data or other hard measures, I *feel* like my intake bells *helped* the Sport. They certainly sound better. to me) They were so asymmetrical before, I feel like evening them out and polishing the intake surface with the "glass mandrel" gives a cleaner, more balanced, intake flow. (Rather than "ram air")

 

Plus, it was great fun! And there was some pretty good beer involved!

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19239&hl=%2Baria+%2Bstock+%2Bair+%2Bbox

[docc]

The constriction point that is about an inch or so (4-5 cm) back from the mouth. I was surprised to find how restrictive and uneven it was at that junction with the "drain box" where the air flow turns upward. Final result:

[Cabernet]

I switch to K&N simply because it is a bitch to fit the ethanol poisoned tank over the air box.

[BMEPdoc]

Reinstalled airbox. Absolutely superior to the pods - not only in appearance IMO, but performance as well.

Prior to reinstallation and subsequent to my meeting with Scud and the opportunity to objectively compare the smoothness of his Scura vs mine, I knew something was amiss. It had too much of a Harley 'chug' to it. See pics and findings below.

[BMEPdoc]

Here's the left bank injector as found. Bear in mind this is a less than 10k mile machine purchased from the original owner.I've seen similar assembly mishaps on NEW Porsche's! They'd get up to temp and pop a code. We'd reset the ECU and everything was kosher until it came up to temp then it'd toss the same code. Some of these cars have injectors literally buried in a city of plastic shrouding etc. Needless to say, a SERIOUS pain and hours of labor to address. Fortunately, Guzzi's are about as simple as a Duncan yo-yo and an R&R is a 30 minute ordeal

Here are the injectors after a full-on refurb.

[BMEPdoc]

Not one to challenge Murphy even on a low mileage unit such as this - I opted to fit the transmission brace.

[footgoose]

"full on refurb" specifics on that procedure would be interesting indeed

 

where'd you get the brace? I need one

 

which way did you go with image posting? they look great

[docc]

Too, cool, BMEPdoc! Yes, more info on the injector refurb, please?

 

[ Images look to be   imgzeit  !  !    ]

[BMEPdoc]

Yep, Imgzeit indeed. I believe it was YOU (docc) that turned me onto it and I thank you.

 

The trans brace:

 

Don at http://www.motivcycleworks.com

 

Motiv Cycle Works, 906 N. Ann Arbor Ave, Oklahoma City, OK 73127.  I think it was $60 but don't remember as I've been buying all sorts of bike (others aside from the Guzzi) parts and accessories. Don was very pleasant to speak to. He's in the process of (or already has by now) opening a new Aprilia and some other marque, (perhaps Guzzi but I don't think so) dealership. He has these cut via waterjet then powdercoated. It's a very nice piece which fit perfectly. The fasteners are included. 

 

The injectors were refurbed for me by a former employee. They're flow tested then alternately to/fro flushed/cleaned with a special solvent under considerable pressure with new inlet screens, O-rings, phenolic spacers, and nozzles (caps) fitted after a walnut bead blasting procedure which give them that 'nicer than new' appearance. He's an older German gent who primarily does German car injectors out of his home garage for long established clientele.

 

He doesn't want to be bothered - but did them for me as a favor. I just called him and he'll do them for $65. Not being computer savvy nor having a PayPal account he'll do them for me if I drop them off. I have no idea if that's a good price, however I DO know he's exceptional at diagnosing, repairing, and servicing Bosch EFI, Kugelfischer and Italian Spica systems. If anyone's interested in doing theirs send me a message. I'll add $5 postage and you can paypal me. According to him its (at most) a 2 day turn around time not including weekends or holidays of course. As for me, I'm retired and unless I'm out riding or spending my kids inheritance, I'll get `em in the mail back to you the same day I get 'em back from Walter.

 

-doc

[LowRyter]

Not one to challenge Murphy even on a low mileage unit such as this - I opted to fit the transmission brace.

 

 

 

looks like the brace from Don?

 

nevermind  

 

Don was going for Moto Guzzi, Aprilia and Vespa dealerships last I talked to him.

[BMEPdoc]

As if you don't already know. Well, perhaps someone out there doesn't. Here's the transmission brace/bracket.

 

 

[swooshdave]

$65 for two is a bit steep for most Guzzi owners. I don’t doubt the quality of the service but the apprehension suggests there might be better options.

 

$20 is about the going rate per injector from some places and it’s not a bad idea to get it done. Unbalanced injectors could definitely cause issues.