V85 motor secrets unveiled

[Scud]

@ScuRoo - I think we are pretty much on the same page. The HP and weight numbers give us only a clue. And from that clue, along with the design of the V85, I am guessing that it will be a good ADV bike, though probably not as aggressively dirt-oriented as the others I compared to. We still need to see where the torque is and how well the suspension works. But it's fun to speculate until then.

 

^^ that's a good video. It would fun to go on a ride with that guy. When you do go offroad, the weight of the bike is one of the biggest factors - and the main reason I like my 701 Enduro so much better than the 950 Adventure I had. I can pick it up by myself - or get out from under it - even if it falls in an awkward spot.

[ScuRoo]

[ScuRoo]

[ScuRoo]

[ScuRoo]

[JBBenson]

32985EA0-0463-4AA4-B0C0-D8155CAF6FC0.jpeg

 

"Pioggia"?

[Scud]

Pioggia means "rain" in Italian. Ironically, very close in spelling to Piaggio, the name of Moto Guzzi's parent company.

 

I assume this is a user-selectable rider mode for the ABS... I haven't heard anything about electronic traction control for this bike.

[pete roper]

It uses the same 7SM controller as the Cali 1400, (And it would seem the same 50mm throttle body.). One can assume it will therefore have the full gamut of fearures and rider *aids* including tri-map, abs, tc etc. it may even have launch control and wheelie control although on this bike that would be somewhat redundant but the potential is there. While the last generation W5AM wes no abacus the 7SM is light years ahead in both its complexity and abilities,(The 7SM is also used on machines like the RSV-4, Tuono and I believe the Craponord.)

 

While I hope that it is a great success I'm afraid that all the BS being spruiked about it leaves me cold. The fact that it won't make anywhere near 80HP doesn't worry me BUT it will worry people who obsess about spec sheets, journalists will pan it for not being 'Powerful' enough and it will sell like rat sandwiches. What leaves me cold is the persevering with the wheezy old 2-valve top end and miserable OHV configuration, it's a terrible retrograde step that will poison future versions which will have to get some sort of more modern design as a 2V hemi head just doesn't cut it in 2019. If you look at the head and rocker carrier castings you can see they already have the provision for a central spark plug! It's obvious a multi valve design is in the pipeline. Did they not learn anything from their experience with the CARC bike series?

 

Pete

[Scud]

...the full gamut of fearures and rider *aids* including tri-map, abs, tc etc. it may even have launch control and wheelie control... 

Probably a typo, but FEARures made me laugh.

 

I'm afraid I don't know how to use my brakes... ABS

I'm afraid I don't know how to corner... traction control

I'm afraid I can't use the clutch... shift assist

etc.

 

Supposedly, this new motor is to be used in a series of new bikes. On the HP: the claim of 80 HP from an 850cc twin is believable (at least within range) when I compare to the 70HP that my 700cc Husqvarna thumper makes.

 

At least they are putting out something worth talking about (cruisers and standards don't do it for me).  Anyway... there is a lot of speculation out there, which is kind of fun. I will await some ride reports and try to ride one myself when they come stateside.

[ScuRoo]

This following contribution provides more detail and is translated from a Spanish forum...

 

# 261 · 25 / Aug / 2018, 12:39 · Edited by caballero73es Things that can be read in the report, some new, some already known ... but as a summary what I understood: - Engine: It is the block of the v9 completely redesigned. They reiterate questions that we already knew about the previous Motorcycling report about the engine. 853 cc. 80 HP of maximum power, 80 Nm of torque from 3,400 rpm. At 5,000 turns it holds 130 km / h. Cut at 7,500 rpm. 52mm butterfly body (the V9 has 38mm), 2 valves per cylinder, with more radical geometry, titanium outlet, semi-dry carter with two lubrication pumps (controlled by chain), new crankshaft with 30 % less weight (do you remember that news from two years ago about the development of a new crankshaft in Noale for Guzzi?), reinforced rods and shorter pistons. Reinforced motor block. It complies with Euro4 and will comply with Euro5 when it is implanted (says that working more on the catalyst). - Switchboard: Here they highlight a work in depth, which is not yet finished (in fact, the motorcycle of the test has not yet installed them at all). Three main modes: Road, Rain and Off Track. The management maps not only control the injection, but also the traction control and the ABS. As an example, the Off-Road mode overrides the rear ABS and makes the front as less invasive as possible. As we already knew, the accelerator is electronic (ride-by-wire) - Gearbox: New, with new synchronizing systems. Both the engineer and the tester, say it goes like silk and the "clonk" of the first has disappeared ... we will miss it! - Chassis, new design from scratch. They include a rendering of it. Additionally, the rear tubular structure is added as anchor for side cases and with the trunk anchor included. The swingarm has been lengthened by 70mm compared to that used by the V9 to adapt to the monoshock and to gain stability at high speed. The tested model has no trestle installed, but the axle of the rear wheel has two lugs for a shop storage rack. I understand that that will probably change in the final model. Both the rear brake pedal and the change pedal are adjustable. - Suspensions: The known, although there are no Öhlins here ... The rear shock absorber monkey has 7 positions of preload and regulator of the hydraulic extension. The fork is equally adjustable, but only in the right bottle. - Brakes: radial Brembo with two 320mm floating discs in front and normal disc behind. - Tires and tires: Metzeler Karoo Street and Tourance Next are mounted on the preserver bikes. The radio tires go with an air chamber. - Escape: 2 in 1, with catalyst and presilenciador located under the engine (behind the crankcase). It is protected by the cover carter, although the photos do not look very good if the protection is long enough. - Deposit: 21 liters, made of plastic material. In tests, at a strong pace, the on-board computer showed an average consumption of 19 km / l. Come on, we talked about 400 km of autonomy cheerfully. - Lights: Full Led as it is now said ... the rear wheels are circular (the opening bowler hat is just below the rear pilots). By the way, maybe it was obvious ... but the headlights are fixed, do not rotate with the fork. - Instrument panel: Although it has been the subject of internal debate ... it is the first Guzzi without analog instrumentation. Color picture and with information at hand. Automatic variable lighting. Of the included image that I already put, it is deduced that it takes of series the multimedia system of connection with mobiles and perhaps with helmets bluetooh ?. - Screen: They indicate that it has two positions, one more vertical than the other, manually modifiable with a tool (the tester suggests that in the final version the allen screw system be replaced by bolts that allow it to be made by hand). Enough to remove air from the chest and without generating excessive turbulence in the helmet (although he wears a cross-type helmet and says that some candle effect makes him), thanks to its peculiar design. I imagine that the variants of this screen are going to be an aftermarket hit ... - Posture: Comfortable, with open and wide handlebars (in the photos it looks pretty good when it is curving and how separated are the hands). The pedals allow the legs to be quite distanced from the cylinders, as confirmed in the photos, in fact he comments that the heat of the engine is not too noticeable but something more in the feet, coming from the collector-catalyst that is located in the part down. The seat is one piece, says that comfortable and wide for the pilot, although he indicates that he would like the front area to be a little narrower. - Libreas: Although they had hinted at something else, it seems that finally this white and yellow livery will be a tribute to Claudio Torri's motorcycle in the 1985 Dakar. But also, in monochromatic scheme of a color combined with the red chassis. At the moment, in addition to the black of the preserie units, we have seen photos of a model in dark blue and another in green Legnano: l) - Test: 300 km of curves from Noale. In one of the photos come 4 V85TT, the three blacks used for the tests, and the one that comes with livery. The enthusiasm of the tester regarding the bike is evident, but good here everyone will have their opinion on the degree of realism of these sponsored tests. - Future models. Here we repeat two things that we already knew ... that with this base of engine and chassis are already working on another model, a motorcycle "road" with wheels of 17 ", and that this engine will not be increased later, What they are working on is another type of design. It is again expressly stated that the intention is to offer a motorcycle technologically up to date, but simple and without complications, with a clear objective, which are the new guzzistas that have entered the brand with the V7. Of everything that I am seeing and reading ... I am quite clear about it; This is the first Guzzi 100% Piaggio, where the Aprilia people have been fundamental in the technical improvement of the bike. We'll see if the result warrants it ...

[pete roper]

80 hp from an air cooled, ohv, 2 VPC motor is the sort of power that serious race bikes that are rebuilt every few meetings get. I was talking to the owner of a racing Trident only a couple of weeks ago, his bike is competitive and approaches the 100HP/l mark but it is still fragile and has to be revved to 10k to make it. It has similar capacity but an extra cylinder but still snaps cranks and rods! Even with lightened valvegear!

 

Sorry, it's not going to happen. When they hi-cam it and 4V it? Maybe. In this iteration? Nah.

[ScuRoo]

I think it might be worthwhile, at very least interesting, adding a couple of responses from the Spanish same site...

 

Originally written by @Guzziamici From what I have read, they say that in 2021 (the centenariat), they want to close the circle ... but never again was it known about that engine project, a rumor of 1,200 or 1,300 cc liquid cooling. I hope that the big bet is a badly painted motorcycle like that orange california of the 90th anniversary (I think) We will see the comparisons of the V85 with the other brands and how it behaves in the market. Or that they take it out already and not within 2 years.

 

In response to Guzziamici above Cabellero73es goes on to say...

Yes it has been known. The new "big block" is announced by the boss of Piaggio, and there are several confirmations that he is working on it. Even in this test it is mentioned again that they will do it when they play ("possiamo farlo e lo faremo, at the moment opportuno"). That they take it out already and not in two years? But if they have been bored to say that the final model will be in November in Milan, to start manufacturing that month and the first deliveries in February. As for what you are saying about the Suzuki Vstorm, that is what there is in fact. Motorcycles light, logical and versatile in which you do not leave a kidney to buy, fun but comfortable to travel without being a transatlantic and operate in the city, short radio, weekend getaways and occasional trips of adventure. That other part of the market that has been lost when the production of the Norge and the Stelvio has stopped (which have always been very minor motorcycles, let's not kid ourselves), you will be able to re-attack when you have a new large block cooled by water, it is the only way to meet the increasingly restrictive Euro4 and especially the Euro5 that sooner or later will play. The only important data that we lack of the V85TT, in addition to confirming definitely that the price remains at 11-12, is the weight. Everything points to 220 kg in running order. If that's the case, it could be what I was reading a couple of days ago in a foreign forum: The Guzzi just at the right time .... Then, if the formula is successful, it is relatively easy to dress it with other clothes and fill a couple of gaps in the catalog ...

[JBBenson]

Funny that the people who worry most about the horsepower figures are the same ones that say they don't care about the horsepower figures.

 

Who cares? How fast do you wanna go anyway?

 

The V85 will never compete with the GS, and Piaggio decided that they would never win against the "bench adventuring" crowd. So, they didn't bother. They built a simpler bike with a lot of flair and that great pushrod engine. 

 

If it turns out to not be a total POS, I will buy one. I might get one even then....    It's just what I want: an urban crossover bike with moderate off-road capabilities. They will sell more of these than those lame Roamers, that's for sure.

[docc]

Now that the "heron heads" of the old small block have gone away (haven't they? ),  how do we tell the true difference between a "Big Block" and a "Small Block?"

 

Don;t mind my confusion about the small displacement of the early BigBlock (770-750cc) and the large displacement of the latest SmallBlock (750-900cc).

 

Now, this new V85 . . . "MidBlock?"

[pete roper]

My worry isn't about its power output. It's the fact that the Piaggio spivs are spruiking it as having an output that it won't achieve. As soon as abunch of 'Journalists' get hold of it and damn it with faint praise and publish even a remotely true rear wheel figure the majority of potential purchasers will simply switch off and cross it off their list.

 

If, as I suspect, it makes about 60 at the wheel, maximum, it's going to be compared to any number of far more powerful machines and found wanting. Not by me. The reason I won't buy one is because I have no need of one and am waiting for something a bit more inspiring and interesting in the engine department but outright HP is of no concern to me at all.

 

Pete