docc Posted September 4, 2018 Posted September 4, 2018 Is the time well nigh for the long-coming Guzzi diesel triple?
Scud Posted September 4, 2018 Posted September 4, 2018 How do we tell the true difference between a "Big Block" and a "Small Block?" Now, this new V85 . . . "MidBlock?" I always thought is weird to refer to a Guzzi engine as any kind of block. To me a "block" is a solid part that has cylinders and a place to attach the crankshaft. A guzzi motor is a case - and the piston barrels slip in. My worry isn't about its power output. It's the fact that the Piaggio spivs are spruiking it as having an output that it won't achieve. As soon as abunch of 'Journalists' get hold of it and damn it with faint praise and publish even a remotely true rear wheel figure the majority of potential purchasers will simply switch off and cross it off their list. Yeah - I think that's a legitimate worry. But there seems to be a growing awareness that a midsize adventure bike doesn't need to have massive peak HP. A comparison against the upcoming Yamaha 700 Tenere seems inevitable. Hopefully it will have a good, solid load of torque - and a low enough first gear to crawl through rocks or launch quickly from stoplights.
ScuRoo Posted September 4, 2018 Author Posted September 4, 2018 Focussing solely on and second guessing what the actual horsepower figure eventuates as is a little bit of a mute point - after all it is what it is, 850cc! Moto Guzzi should be congratulated for redesigning and offering riders an air-cooled option which can comply with the Euro5 emission impositions. Other manufacturers like BMW et al, have bailed out and all gone water cooled. I’m loving their contrarian mindset to just say, Hey guys, let’s go swimming upstream and see how much power and efficiency we can screw out with shaving crankshaft weight, titanium valves etc. I know it’s all in the eye of the beholder, but for an Adventure bike, I think this TT is absolutely stunning! I’m not being visually wooed with all the others stark, sharp plastic lines and fancy pants headlights! It’s cool, it’s classic. We’ve clearly been told there’s more coming along... so yep, maybe we should stick with faith, hope and love... 2
JBBenson Posted September 4, 2018 Posted September 4, 2018 Pete's not wrong with his thoughts on journalists and pure numbers, I just think it doesn't matter that much: those people were never considering Moto Guzzi anyway. They are waiting for a KTM Ultra Adventure with 300 HP. It says "adventure" right on the tank. You can't go adventuring without 300 HP, everybody knows that. Guzzi has decided that the only way to win, is not to play. Like ScuRoo said, their stubbornness is a big part of their appeal.
docc Posted September 4, 2018 Posted September 4, 2018 We’ve clearly been told there’s more coming along... so yep, maybe we should stick with faith, hope and love... 683107F1-929F-4E99-8C04-ECDEE53BE85A.jpeg Is that a V85 LeMans? Is that for real? [edit: I can't copy and paste that picture or find it on the web.]
czakky Posted September 4, 2018 Posted September 4, 2018 Ducati gloves and helmet? I hope it’s not a test rider... 1
Chuck Posted September 5, 2018 Posted September 5, 2018 We’ve clearly been told there’s more coming along... so yep, maybe we should stick with faith, hope and love... 683107F1-929F-4E99-8C04-ECDEE53BE85A.jpeg Is that a V85 LeMans? Is that for real? [edit: I can't copy and paste that picture or find it on the web.] If it is, it would be the first time in years that I was interested in what is in the works..
docc Posted September 5, 2018 Posted September 5, 2018 Ducati gloves and helmet? I hope it’s not a test rider... Or, worse, just clever "Photoshop?"
footgoose Posted September 5, 2018 Posted September 5, 2018 We’ve clearly been told there’s more coming along... so yep, maybe we should stick with faith, hope and love... 683107F1-929F-4E99-8C04-ECDEE53BE85A.jpeg Is that a V85 LeMans? Is that for real? [edit: I can't copy and paste that picture or find it on the web.] It looks like a V7 parts bin combobulation with fairing and paint to me. Could be an 850. I guess retro is a way to make money these days... appeal to a younger bunch, generate some new blood interest. I get it. The company flagship is a cruiser... for Batman. I get that too. And no shade to cast from me. What IS bothersome is the lack of a LeMans. 13 years since? The Griso is the perfect format. That is... without a load of r&d. It so wants to be a LeMans. 2
Gmc28 Posted September 5, 2018 Posted September 5, 2018 New toys like this keep us all entertained, so thats good. For myself, if it has anywhere near 80hp and can be kept semi-light and is comfortable to ride, its a winner. Scud mentioned the KTM ADV... I’ve also got a 990 version, and its sweet, but very underwhelming to me for a bike that’s advertised at 105hp. My little Cagiva Gran Canyons, which they say have about 68HP, feel far quicker, even though on paper they are similar weight as the KTM 990 ADV. Sort of along the lines of the “big horses”... doesnt make sense, but there’s something going on there. I love my 990, but it does not impress me in the power department (compounded by the fact that it also gets crap fuel economy/range). Drawback to the Gran Canyon for me, and its a bit nit picky (like most things we carry-on about), is that if I keep it in stock gearing its quite comfortable at low speed off road, but its really screaming on the RPM when at 70+mph on the freeway. I assume the extra horses on other bikes, like the KTM, are what make it able to have a nice low speed gear but also a top gear that pulls well and doesn’t have the rpm wrapped up near red line. As far as a “real ADV bike” goes, I wouldn’t expect anything “KTM-like” from guzzi on this V85, but thats more or less right on for what i’d Expect and want from Guzzi... a bike that can do some great touring and then get off the tarmac and not feel out of place, which is the great compromise that works for most folks just out to have a good time. A more competent off road bike (scuds 701... sweet) would be the ticket off road, but a drag to sit on all day on the slab. And then, as the old ADV story goes, A more competent slab bike (GS, or Stelvio) will then be a truck off-road, too heavy to comfortably lift back upright when she spills (no hate mail please from GS or stelvio owners... you know what i mean... they’re awesome, but lets just be honest and admit they’re huge.). I for one welcome the latest wave of smaller, mid-size ADV themed bikes. About damn time. Although yes, its a “deja-vu” thing, as we’re just going back to semi normal sizes, after the HP and cc wars of the this later generation of bikes. Though I still have my big HP beast in the garage too....
swooshdave Posted September 5, 2018 Posted September 5, 2018 Scud You probably know better than me - but my regular riding mate has a R9T scrambler and I’m on a V11 ScuraR. The stats say... Power - 110HP@7750rpm vs 91HP@7800rpm Torque - 115Nm@6000 vs 94Nm@6000rpm His Wet weight 220kg. My Dry weight 226kg. Now, anyone looking at those figures (myself included) would overwhelmingly be expecting there’s no bloody contest... However, I’m writing for one reason only. Shock! Genuinely, I’ve been utterly shocked at how unreliable paper figures actually work out to be on the road...! Only when there is a long, flat straight, top gear max revs does the R9T have the top end overtake advantage - apart from that scenario it’s wafer thin from point A to B. I’ve even noticed, on rising slopes or hills the scrambler can’t seem to reel the V11 in like on the flat or down hill stretches. So, it’s seems true, Guzzi horses really are “big” horses - and I often wonder what is that actual secret ingredient? Torque. It's all about the torque. But torque isn't sexy but it makes a bike fun. More torque = more fun.
Chuck Posted September 5, 2018 Posted September 5, 2018 More torque = more fun. I've ridden some Hawgs, and they ain't fun.
footgoose Posted September 6, 2018 Posted September 6, 2018 More torque = more fun. I've ridden some Hawgs, and they ain't fun. The HD's I've owned were all fun to ride, except the Sportster over 55 mph. I loved the torque. There is nothing like the feel of being on a big twin. That said, they are over priced, under powered, heavy, low rev, and poor handling. They just are what they are... large. My Goose was welcomed into the garage 16 years ago, and found a home. 1
docc Posted September 6, 2018 Posted September 6, 2018 There is some matter of how a particular engine "makes power." Much like the tone of a musical instrument. I have a fiddle that "Sounds better than it deserves to." After all, can quality be quantified? "And what is good, Phædrus? And what is not good--- Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?" -Pirsig 1
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