V85 motor secrets unveiled

[ScuRoo]

The secrets of the Moto Guzzi V85 engine Antonio Cappellini - responsible for the design of the Piaggio group - reveals the secrets of the two-cylinder Moto Guzzi V85. Titanium and maniacal valves seeking lightness to increase power and make the delivery smoother, as well as semi-dry crankcase lubrication At the last Motor Show in Milan, Moto Guzzi presented the prototype of the V85 endurona. In the last few months we interviewed Marco Lambri, the person in charge of the bike line, who told us some anecdotes about the birth of this bike. Now instead the word goes to Antonio Cappellini - number one of the design of the Piaggio group - that exclusively for Motociclismo unveils the secrets of the twin-cylinder Moto Guzzi V85. Off-road rider, amateur rider of motocross and husband of a motorcyclist who in his youth guided the Aspes Hopi (and who knows if he knows that the 125 Gallarate was a nice peperino!) Cappellini does not skimp information on the new engine dell'endurona. The secrets of the Moto Guzzi V85 engine A new Guzzi engine is always a highly anticipated event not only by the enthusiasts of the Mandello del Lario brand. Really this V of 90 ° is different from the two-cylinder that equip the custom V9 and the naked V7 III? "It derives from the V9 engine, but only in architecture and bore and stroke measurements; the analogy ends here and can be considered a whole new engine. And I explain why. Let's start by saying that the lubrication is a semi-dry crankcase and not a wet sump. We have two coaxial pumps instead of one; they are used for the delivery and to recover the lubricant. In the old V7 engine all the oil was sent to the top of the heads and less to other parts. Of course, so exposed to the air it cooled well and lowered the temperature of the hottest area, but it was not the best for general lubrication. We are so sure of the performance of this semi-dry system that we do not even have an oil cooler. With the semi-dry solution we also have a crank shaft crankcase completely insulated, avoiding the possible absorption of power deriving from an "open" solution where the piston must also overcome the back pressure inside the crankcases ". But how did you manage to increase the power up to 80 hp? The V9 has only 55. A nice step forward. "Everyone thinks that this engine has four valves per cylinder for this performance. Actually we only have two. It was a good undertaking to get 100 HP / liter from an air-cooled engine while maintaining the distribution to rods and rocker arms. However, we wanted to respect the classic technical architecture of Guzzi engines ". What is the secret to having these benefits? "Having a titanium intake valve. It weighs half of an analogous steel and this has allowed us to adopt a geometry of the opening of the valves much more radical. We still used only one intake manifold, but with a throttle body of 52 mm in diameter against 38 mm of that of the peaceful V9. In addition, the accelerator is ride-by-wire, while the other has a mechanical drive. With the electronic throttle control, engine management is facilitated and we can better manage the entire supply, starting with the various mappings and the traction control system. But we did not stop here in the technical review of the V9. Because the V85 has a new crankshaft, several stiffer connecting rods and even shorter-clad pistons. We have saved almost 30% of the weight of the embellishment. And this has allowed us to cut the vibrations drastically even at maximum speed ". The frame is completely different from those of the history of the twin-cylinder V7, so much so that the engine has become an element of stiffening of the entire structure. Did you have to intervene on the base? "Yes, the carter are all new, sturdier just to give greater rigidity because I wanted a frame that would allow you to enter the curve with the same precision and solidity of our Stelvio. And I told my engineers: 'As long as I do not feel the tread that rubs on the asphalt I'm not happy'. And touch, I assure you that it touches! We have also extended the swingarm to make the rear suspension work better and increase the driving precision on the fast ". The secrets of the Moto Guzzi V85 engine The V85 is born to confront with a fierce competition in the off-road sector, motorcycles that have brilliant engines ... "I assure you that this twin-cylinder will be quick and bright. We have a torque that expresses the maximum of its value of 80 Nm at only 3,400 rpm and its work curve is actually a straight line that remains so until the maximum of laps. Of course we can not compete with the twin-cylinder 1200, but we play with the competitors of equal displacement. We are there having a year around this engine and we have not finished yet, but we want to be sure to have a motor at the height of a great Guzzi. We could certainly build a liquid-cooled twin cylinder with four valves per cylinder - and we will do it - but we wanted to keep the image of a classic Guzzi at all costs ". Guzzi engines are recognized with their eyes closed not only for the sound to the exhaust, but also for that clock that accompanies the insertion of the gear. "You will not hear it anymore. Using a dry clutch, and ours is, when the first gear engages, the complete disengaging of the clutch allows the whole system of the primary transmission and the gearbox to turn quickly again. The clock that is heard derives from the engagement of the selector that collides with the fast rotation of the gears. With the friction in the oil bath everything is 'softer' and the noise is lower. But we worked hard to soften, even make this clock disappear and have more silent gearshifts than the six-speed gearbox. In addition we have put a damper on the output of the gearbox due to the increased power and to have an even 'softer' response to the final shaft transmission ". It has always been said that the ever more stringent anti-pollution regulations would not allow to keep the air-cooled engines ... "But this V85 is the proven proof that you can very well make a similar engine that passes the guillotine of emissions without problems. It was immediately OK for the Euro 4 and is already ready to adapt to the much more restrictive Euro 5. We will probably have to work hard on the catalysts, but with a power of 100 hp / liter there are no problems even with air cooling. And then this is an engine that consumes very little. If you think about it, it's a propeller that does not have too many components to absorb power. It has no cooling pump, it does not have long chains or distribution belts and the rod and rocker system is among the most parks in eating power ... And so we consume little ". Has it been studied to grow in displacement? "No. Not because it is not structured to accommodate a cubature even higher, but because it is born to have a balance between performance and lightness. And that's what we're looking for from a bike in this category ". Will it also be used for other models? "Yes: we are working on a road version that already today drives very, very well, and then on more ...".

https://www.google.com.au/amp/m.motociclismo.it/moto-guzzi-v85-segreti-motore-intervista-cappellini-70088.amp

[footgoose]

thanks for posting and translating this. I wish I could read the comments section. I'm liking this bike concept so far. I've been looking longingly at a Duc Scrambler X Sled

 

[fotoguzzi]

Translation hardly makes sense.. hopefully it does in Italian.. "several connecting rods"?

[ScuRoo]

Translated from Czech:

 

Chief of the technical group Piaggio Group talked about the technical details of the new V85 engine. Moto Guzzi V85 has become the winner of the vote for the general public at the EICMA 2017, and so great expectations are met. And they also enjoy great attention. That's why Antonio Cappellini - the number one person in the Piaggio Group design - has expressed it. The V85 is significantly different from the V7 and V9 engines. It's not just a difference in the drilling and lifting of the pistons, the changes inside the engine are all pleiades. We start with titanium valves weighing half that of steel. Their lower inertia forces a higher increase in speed and power. In order to better feed the mixture, the throttle diameter was increased from 38mm to 52mm. It is controlled by ride-by-wire over several different fuel maps. This new throttle also has an innovative traction control that will work more gently than engaging the previously used ignition off. Moto Guzzi V85 - winner of the vote of the EICMA The crankcase is not wet as with V7 / V9 but is semi-dry. Two oil pumps are now available for lubrication. One is pressure and the other suction. In engine V7, the oil was sent to the top of the head, from where it flowed back down into the engine. At V85, the oil circuit is forced through two pumps. The result is better oil cooling and a great deal of lubrication from the crank where there are great piston pressures. With these pressures the oil was unnecessarily heated. The cylinders still have two-valve technology. However, the engine meets Euro4 and will meet Euro5. It has a performance of 80 hp, which is a beautiful shift compared to 55 hp on the V9 engine. It also helps with the new crankshaft, which is made of more rigid materials and therefore can be lighter. All the other shafts in the engine and gearbox are also lighter and, along with other changes, nearly 30% of the weight is saved on the engine's interior. This lighter engine interior also contributed to a significant reduction in vibrations and to a steady torque curve, which is totally equal from 3400 rpm. The engine's engine is completely new. It is more robust, because the engine itself will be a part of the frame. The entire set with a small frame will achieve excellent stiffness, comparable to the Stelvio 1200 model. While the V85 will not be able to compete with the Stelvio 1200, the V85 will be lighter and the power / weight ratio will be at 800cc. Moto Guzzi V85 has a dry clutch again. The gear selector has been redesigned, so you will no longer hear the classic clutter when running on neutral. A silentblock was mounted on the cardan wings to make the shot softer. The engine itself will not be sold in different power versions. It is designed for 80 horsepower and will be assembled. However, it is clear today that the V85 will also appear in other segments, and the road version is already working. Will it be a new version of the V9 series? The non-finalized prototype shows what we wrote in our earlier article. That EICMA showed the bike what it might be, not what it really is. The center of attention was Brembo M50 and Ohlins chassis, which both components got on the new prototype to the price of reasonable limits. In front, the Brembo P4.34 brakes, the Marzocchi front shock absorber and the rear Sachs silencer have been installed. At the EICMA prototype the lights, LCD and plexi label were anchored in the glasses steering. Now the lights, the LCD and the plexus are independently anchored directly to the frame and therefore there has been added a massive scaffold that holds it all. This was positively influenced by maneuverability, especially with faster turnarounds.

http://motosvet.cz/testy/373-detaily-motoru-moto-guzzi-v85.html

[LowRyter]

So if I got this straight, the new engine has lighter and stronger reciprocal components (pistons, rods & crank), better head flow (and titanium valves), improved induction (fuel management) and cooling and less internal friction and pumping losses (due to dry sump). 

 

Now it's rated at 80 hp, not 85.  At the crank.

 

Really, it does look like it's going to be a pretty nice bike.  But some of us are turned off by all the hype and the attendant delays and usual  disappointment.  We've been here before

[ScuRoo]

[Chuck]

Where's my corncob pipe??

[milar]

>The engine itself will not be sold in different power versions. It is designed for 80 horsepower 

 

You can stop dreaming about a LeMans version.

 

Mike

[Chuck]

>The engine itself will not be sold in different power versions. It is designed for 80 horsepower 

 

You can stop dreaming about a LeMans version.

 

Mike

You could have a fine LeMans with 80 horsepower.. Just keep the weight down.

[LowRyter]

>The engine itself will not be sold in different power versions. It is designed for 80 horsepower 

 

You can stop dreaming about a LeMans version.

 

Mike

 

my Greenie has 75 rear wheel HP 

 

 

They are Clydesdales, not Shetlands. 

[Ian]

I liked the look of the prototype but the production ready(ish) version in the later photo’s looks heavy

[ScuRoo]

I noted some dislike the “Ronald McDonald” yellow concept colour scheme but seems Piaggio might be planning on more monochromatic offerings too...

[docc]

I promise to read through all of this, but had to pause at the second sentence just loving the concept of "maniacal valves!"

 

ma·ni·a·cal

      /məˈnīəkəl/  ,    adjective

 

          Exhibiting extremely wild or violent behavior.

 

[  Got to get-me some 'o them!  ]

[Rox Lemans]

You know what would be nice? A V85 LeMans .... Just sayin,

[RHIP]

Great story. When I saw this bike revealed at the bike show, I thought "At last, Guzzi has a winner!" But, as always, no bikes have been released. As is so often the case, the company is just a year or two behind everyone else when a new design is first unveiled - and by the time production starts, 4-5 years later, the rest of the industry has blown past it. I still think this will be a very nice bike, but that 80-85 horsepower is rated in Italian ponies, which are always optimistic, and when its finally put on a dyno, I think it will more likely be 70-72 HP at the rear wheel, which is still a whole lot better than the V7. It's hard to believe my 1973 V7 Sport was rated at 70, would comfortably pass the Ton, and would eat an R80 BMW for breakfast. Progress?