New Guzzi Sport

[DeBenGuzzi]

ANYone have ANY idea how much the Griso will cost? I really like it I don't care what anyone says. But second I saw a post earlier that stated 102hp but MG's own site states 88hp? I don't like the sound of that gimmie a hondo hp, ALSO why the hell are they not going back to the 4v heads? I'm so confused is there something going on? are the 2v's cheaper? easier? they lazy? have an overstock of 2v? from what I can tell the 4v is a better setup. Maybe someone in the "know" could let me know.

[al_roethlisberger]

I'm sure if you peruse the "MGS-01 when?" thread, you'll find out about all you ever wanted to know

 

 

Basically, MG is out of 4V heads, and used them all up for the 50-ish MGS Corsas.

 

The 4V mold was broken, lost, or maybe(no one seem sure) it's just not cost effective to make more as air-cooled bikes fade into history due to emissions requirements.... but there aren't anymore hi-cam engines.

 

But even so, although the 4V is a great engine, the current 2V nips right at its heels when in a good state of tune, with less complexity, and a lower COG.

 

To get the most out of the 4V engine, you needed to rev it, and with that in mind... the 2V is probably a better engine choice for the type of bike the Griso represents.

 

 

But the MGS Corsa represents the last hurrah of the 4V air-cooled engine from MG it seems... at least in the Daytona engine iteration.

 

 

BTW, MG corporate marketing literature always hypes HP at the flywheel, not rear wheel. The 4V engine was probably putting out about 100hp at the flywheel, but not quite 90 at the rear wheel. This isn't too much more than a well tuned 2V.

 

al

[DeBenGuzzi]

Well then I wish they were a little bit more affordable and where in ppl's minds as a good all-around bike to own like the good ole days I've heard about (b4 I was born) They would be able to expand instead of gasp for air. MG is my favorite bike second is aprilia my only problem is I could have 2 suzukis for the price of a sweet itialian.I just got to keep telling myself "you get what you pay for" and "If you can't afford to fix it then you can't afford to own it" which means don't break down you expensive peice of itialian sheet.

[callison]

The first Daytona's were TWO years late getting to market because MG had a hell of a time making a head that wouldn't melt. Eventually, special alloys were used and the problem was overcome. Still, I suspect that the engine was comparitively expensive given it's somewhat meagre gains in horsepower over the 2v engine.

[Guest SDKFZ111]

I'm sure if you peruse the "MGS-01 when?" thread, you'll find out about all you ever wanted to know 

Basically, MG is out of 4V heads, and used them all up for the 50-ish MGS Corsas.

 

The 4V mold was broken, lost, or maybe(no one seem sure) it's just not cost effective to make more as air-cooled bikes fade into history due to emissions requirements.... but there aren't anymore hi-cam engines.

 

But even so, although the 4V is a great engine, the current 2V nips right at its heels when in a good state of tune, with less complexity, and a lower COG.

 

To get the most out of the 4V engine, you needed to rev it, and with that in mind... the 2V is probably a better engine choice for the type of bike the Griso represents.

But the MGS Corsa represents the last hurrah of the 4V air-cooled engine from MG it seems... at least in the Daytona engine iteration.

BTW, MG corporate marketing literature always hypes HP at the flywheel, not rear wheel.  The 4V engine was probably putting out about 100hp at the flywheel, but not quite 90 at the rear wheel.  This isn't too much more than a well tuned 2V.

 

al

43650[/snapback]

[Skeeve]

Basically, MG is out of 4V heads, and used them all up for the 50-ish MGS Corsas.

 

The 4V mold was broken, lost, or maybe(no one seem sure) it's just not cost effective to make more as air-cooled bikes fade into history due to emissions requirements.... but there aren't anymore hi-cam engines.

 

Dr. John no longer works for Guzzi, and Ingeniere U. Todero who made the Hi-Cam is retired. From what I've read, they're likely the only individuals who have an idea what special alloy it was they finally wound up using to keep the heads from melting... [1]

 

But even so, although the 4V is a great engine, the current 2V nips right at its heels when in a good state of tune, with less complexity, and a lower COG.

 

To get the most out of the 4V engine, you needed to rev it, and with that in mind... the 2V is probably a better engine choice for the type of bike the Griso represents.

 

Why then is it that all the talk about the Centauro states that it's an incredibly gutsy motor that just doesn't run out of steam on top the way the 2v engines do?

 

And the 2v "nips right at the heels" of the 4v only in the sense that the 2v that has been taken as far as that design can go is almost at the 4v levels in its most basic level of tune.

 

Somebody else in this thread commented that the 4v was eliminated because of emissions concerns over it being air-cooled: this is ridiculous, given that the 4v with it's pentroof combustion chamber is far & away more emissions friendly than the (also air-cooled) 2v can be, due to greater resistance to pinging.

 

[1] Guzzi's claim that they're "out of 4v engines" is odd, to say the least. Moto Guzzi, as a company, is (in)famous for doing everything in-house; they even made their own forks up until the early 90s, iirc. [NB: isn't it ironic that the whole world seems to have gone over to inverted forks, a 50+ year old Guzzi development?!? ] How does a company with it's own museum lose the molds to their only hope for ongoing sales? As much as Aprilia may have wanted to force Guzzi into using their own engines, I very much doubt Beggio would have been foolish enough to discard the means of production for an existing, proven engine design that could be used immediately to good effect. Personally, I favor the theory that the special alloy used is the fly in the ointment: either Todero didn't keep good records on that final solution of composition & heat-treating, or the current management doesn't want to go to him (was he forced out like Carcano?), or else it's a beryllium alloy[2] and the new management doesn't want to deal with the health/environmental hazards involved in using it in volume production would entail.

 

[2] And if it isn't a beryllium alloy, then someone who wanted to take an air-cooled 4v design to higher power levels still has room to maneuver... if they're willing to be scrupulous in their attention to details

[al_roethlisberger]

Why then is it that all the talk about the Centauro states that it's an incredibly gutsy motor that just doesn't run out of steam on top the way the 2v engines do? 

 

And the 2v "nips right at the heels" of the 4v only in the sense that the 2v that has been taken as far as that design can go is almost at the 4v levels in its most basic level of tune.

 

 

I am sure you are correct, but this is the state of things as they stand today never-the-less

 

Of course one can drop a kit into either to bump the displacement a couple hundred cc, and throw the whole debate to the wind.... but as delivered stock, the "old" 4V is only marginally better, and "better" defined by perhaps how one rides.... than a "current" well tuned stock 2V.

 

Again, I am sure that if someone continued to have developed the 4V engine over the last decade, or even began tomorrow... advances could be made

 

As to why Guzzi has given up on the 4V, the reasons I gave were followed with an interogative... in that the reasons given are known speculation. Perhaps one day we will know the real story, and indeed your suspicion may be spot on. I have no idea.

 

Regardless though, the future of the 4V seems to have reached its finale.... at least so far

 

al

[Guest SDKFZ111]

With regards to the demise of the 4 valve engine and the lack of a more up to date engine is it not the usual, lack of cash, for R/d and production,after all BMWs latest incarnation of their venerable boxer twin is an air cooled/air cooled engine.Their latest version puts out a claimed 110 HP and conforms to the latest emission regulations. My dealer informs that this latest engine is at the start of a projected 10 year life span.