Red (short) Frame vs. Black (long) Frame

[Guzzimax]

So is there a consensus amongst the Guzzi community about their preferences?

Short red frame & short tank (chinpad)

long black frame & short tank (chinpad)

long black frame & long tank (internal fuel pump)

On balance I find black frames feel a little more planted in corners. Must be the 20 mm longer wheelbase plus all the extra bracing around the swing arm / subframes. I don’t feel the fatter 180 rear tyre has much of an effect in slowing the black frames turn in. I have a 2002 transition model (registered in 03),and the extra 20 mm of frame visible behind the steering head doesn’t bother me. I don’t find it aesthetically less pleasing than a long tank

 

[docc]

"Some fine fellow" with five V11 (!) would be imminently qualified to answer this question of compromises. There is also the matter of differing clip-ons and handlebars along with various flyscreen and fairing configurations.

As far as "preference", it is compelling to prefer that which I am bonded to. The early RedFrames are likely more demanding in getting the suspension/tires set up optimally.  Very earliest RedFrames are reported to have had 1/2º (0.5º) steeper triple trees.

"There is no greater satisfaction than to desire that which you already possess."

[Guzzimax]

I appreciate your point that one tends to prefer that which one is bonded to. I personally arrived in the strange situation of acquiring 5 V11’s because I was genuinely interested in discovering the subtle differences of some of the main sub-models, and I couldn’t bring myself to sell any, so the collezione just expanded over the years. My justification to myself in buying a Greenie this year, when I already have a silver red-frame, was that Greenie had Mistrals, a belly pan, tail tidy, and various mods whereas my Silver is entirely stock, and apart from the future addition of a Roper plate will remain that way. I don’t really have any strong preferences of one derivative over any other, but I’m sure that there are some folk out there in Guzziland who have both red & black frames, and I’m interested in hearing other’s opinions. My local Guzzi community is awash with various Calis, 1200 Sports, various LeMans, Stelvios, V7s, and a growing no of V85s; even a Spada, but only one 1100 Sport, and no other V11. It’s like the Spine era was bypassed. I was seriously looking at an 1100 Sport earlier this year, but I decided that I just couldn’t get along with the hardcore riding position….

[Scud]

2 hours ago, Guzzimax said:

So is there a consensus amongst the Guzzi community about their preferences?

Short red frame & short tank (chinpad)

long black frame & short tank (chinpad)

long black frame & long tank (internal fuel pump)

Consensus, I doubt it. Variety of opinions, certainly. Here's mine:

For a while I had one of each variation as you described above. A Greenie, a Scura and a Red LeMans. I had a very strong and clear preference for whichever one I happened to be riding at the moment, and never once did I think, "I wish had taken a different one out today."

But only the Scura remains. Unfair advantage due partly to the Ohlins and the single-plate clutch. The greenie and the LeMans both had the stock shock, and I rode them both with an Ohlins shock for a while - which improved them immensely. 

I preferred the LeMans for long distances, because the fairing is better.

Ultimately, the reason I kept the Scura and not the others was that I am second owner of the Scura, but the original owner didn't even put 200 miles on it. So I've basically had it since new. The other bikes were rescues.

The internal fuel pump seems smarter, but the plastic fuel line fittings are not great. If I get another one, I'd look to upgrade those. I think the smooth tank (no chinpad) looks better.

[footgoose]

I have one long and one short frame. They are unique enough to own them both, especially with the long frame being LeMans bodied. I'm not competitive and don't pay much attention regarding negative or positive handling details that change lap times by seconds. I do know what I like however and I like them both, for the same reasons but on varying roads. Whats clear to me is that when the road gets tight and twisty the red frame is more in it's natural setting. Sweepers are my favorite roads because I can go faster safer and enjoy the view somewhat as well. The LeMans is at home here and honestly the rewards are greater. I suppose it comes down to a rider's style. You can't rate a bike without the human.

[leroysch]

Damn these essay questions.....

[KINDOY2]

26 minutes ago, footgoose said:

I have one long and one short frame. They are unique enough to own them both, especially with the long frame being LeMans bodied. I'm not competitive and don't pay much attention regarding negative or positive handling details that change lap times by seconds. I do know what I like however and I like them both, for the same reasons but on varying roads. Whats clear to me is that when the road gets tight and twisty the red frame is more in it's natural setting. Sweepers are my favorite roads because I can go faster safer and enjoy the view somewhat as well. The LeMans is at home here and honestly the rewards are greater. I suppose it comes down to a rider's style. You can't rate a bike without the human.

Had both and agree, If Im headed into a fast sweeper at 85-90 mph ..my Scura feels planted and predictable in my riding style. As did my Rosso Corsa.

[KINDOY2]

2 hours ago, Guzzimax said:

I appreciate your point that one tends to prefer that which one is bonded to. I personally arrived in the strange situation of acquiring 5 V11’s because I was genuinely interested in discovering the subtle differences of some of the main sub-models, and I couldn’t bring myself to sell any, so the collezione just expanded over the years. My justification to myself in buying a Greenie this year, when I already have a silver red-frame, was that Greenie had Mistrals, a belly pan, tail tidy, and various mods whereas my Silver is entirely stock, and apart from the future addition of a Roper plate will remain that way. I don’t really have any strong preferences of one derivative over any other, but I’m sure that there are some folk out there in Guzziland who have both red & black frames, and I’m interested in hearing other’s opinions. My local Guzzi community is awash with various Calis, 1200 Sports, various LeMans, Stelvios, V7s, and a growing no of V85s; even a Spada, but only one 1100 Sport, and no other V11. It’s like the Spine era was bypassed. I was seriously looking at an 1100 Sport earlier this year, but I decided that I just couldn’t get along with the hardcore riding position….

I wonder what Derby is like, I did the Ancestory.com thing as a gift from my wife, and many of my Ancestors from the 1600-mid 1800's were from Derby, the rest  from Wales, I have been around Europe but not the Uk yet ....someday maybe

[docc]

On 9/6/2021 at 6:03 PM, Guzzimax said:

I appreciate your point that one tends to prefer that which one is bonded to. I personally arrived in the strange situation of acquiring 5 V11’s because I was genuinely interested in discovering the subtle differences of some of the main sub-models, and I couldn’t bring myself to sell any, so the collezione just expanded over the years. My justification to myself in buying a Greenie this year, when I already have a silver red-frame, was that Greenie had Mistrals, a belly pan, tail tidy, and various mods whereas my Silver is entirely stock, and apart from the future addition of a Roper plate will remain that way. I don’t really have any strong preferences of one derivative over any other, but I’m sure that there are some folk out there in Guzziland who have both red & black frames, and I’m interested in hearing other’s opinions. My local Guzzi community is awash with various Calis, 1200 Sports, various LeMans, Stelvios, V7s, and a growing no of V85s; even a Spada, but only one 1100 Sport, and no other V11. It’s like the Spine era was bypassed. I was seriously looking at an 1100 Sport earlier this year, but I decided that I just couldn’t get along with the hardcore riding position….

As much time as I have spent on, and with, my RedFrame Sport, I only recall riding two other SpineFrames. Interestingly, a previous generation 1100 Sport-i and a next-gen LongFrame Café Sport (with handlebars and forward set instruments/headlamp).

I immediately found both of them less 'responsive' to cornering input, more "stable", if you will. And discovered my RedFrame Sport offered the perfect (for me) riding posture compromise between the rather "committed" 1100 Sport-i and the more upright, handle-barred, LongFrame Café Sport.

My first riding buddy, RIP, always told me the perfect number of bikes is five. 

I paraphrase, "Sometimes you want a glass of milk, another time: Bacardi. Another day, a comfortable reclining chair, then to be shot out of a cannon."

I reckon mySport has done all of these things for me. Otherwise, how could she still be soldiering on, so admired and trusted?

JMHO, YMMV

[footgoose]

19 minutes ago, docc said:

As much time as I have spent on, and with, my RedFrame Sport, I only recall riding two other SpineFrames. Interestingly, a previous generation 1100 Sport-i and a next-gen LongFrame Café Sport (with handlebars and forward set instruments/headlamp).

I immediately found both of them less 'responsive' to cornering input, more "stable", if you will. And discovered my RedFrame Sport offered the perfect (for me) riding posture compromise between the rather "committed" 1100 Sport-i and the more upright, handle-barred, LongFrame Café Sport.

My first riding buddy, RIP, always told me the perfect number of bikes is five. 

I paraphrase, "Sometimes you want a glass of milk, another time: Bacardi. Another day, a comfortable reclining chair, then to be shot out of a cannon."

I reckon mySport has done all of these things for me. Otherwise, how could she still be soldiering on, so admired and trusted?

JMHO, YMMV

Some pre ride Ju-Ju? Can't fault you a bit.

[docc]

I also remember entertaining a BMW R1100S while mySport was down for a warranty issue. Yeah, I "stepped out" on her. 

The various V11 variants are really just incrementally different. The BMW "Sport" was like driving a van. I kept taking my eyes off the road to look down under the tank thinking, "I thought this has a big twin ? "

It was like I had to radio the "Engineering Section" to change lanes.

And the exhaust note? whwhwhwhwhwhwh

I've never heard a V11 Guzzi that didn't sound . . .  just: bellissimo!   

[Scud]

1 hour ago, docc said:

I also remember entertaining a BMW R1100S...

And the exhaust note? whwhwhwhwhwhwh

Mouse farts and saggy jugs.

Must have been a stocker. The mouse farts can be remedied, but the saggy jugs are not treatable.

Thinking about it... I don't recall ever hearing a conversation about named BMW frame types - I only recall hearing about engine types: airhead, oilhead, hexhead, etc. Same with Harleys: knucklehead, panhead, shovelhead, evolution, etc. Similar with Ducatis; bevel, desmo,  etc. Although with Ducati, I think about the Trellis frame - but cannot think of any other frames that have a distinct name.

[Lucky Phil]

2 hours ago, docc said:

I also remember entertaining a BMW R1100S while mySport was down for a warranty issue. Yeah, I "stepped out" on her. 

The various V11 variants are really just incrementally different. The BMW "Sport" was like driving a van. I kept taking my eyes off the road to look down under the tank thinking, "I thought this has a big twin ? "

It was like I had to radio the "Engineering Section" to change lanes.

And the exhaust note? whwhwhwhwhwhwh

I've never heard a V11 Guzzi that didn't sound . . .  just: bellissimo!   

I owned a new BMW R1100S for a while docc. Mine had the optional 5.5" rear rim.

Ciao

[KINDOY2]

6 hours ago, docc said:

I also remember entertaining a BMW R1100S while mySport was down for a warranty issue. Yeah, I "stepped out" on her. 

The various V11 variants are really just incrementally different. The BMW "Sport" was like driving a van. I kept taking my eyes off the road to look down under the tank thinking, "I thought this has a big twin ? "

It was like I had to radio the "Engineering Section" to change lanes.

And the exhaust note? whwhwhwhwhwhwh

I've never heard a V11 Guzzi that didn't sound . . .  just: bellissimo!   

I've owned a couple BMW R1100S and R1100RT's, decent bikes...Yawn......Like My friend Mike said..." I had a R1100s...very nice bike, But the whole time I had it no one ever came up and said " Hey! Nice Bike!"

Kinda Sums up my feelings.

[Chuck]

Quote

Mouse farts and saggy jugs.

Pete once said, "rather like a Parson farting in a bathtub."

I've had an airhead and an oilhead, but I'm a slow learner.