Relay Base Repair

[Kiwi_Roy]

(Edited 06 August 2010 - 05:36 AM):

 

If you are having trouble with your relays. Some of the problems could be due to a faulty contact in the base.

The attached drawing shows how to remove the connectors from the base so they can be inspected or tightened by pinching with a pair of pliers.

If you need to replace them the brass connectors are standard items that can be purchased at any good automotive supply store.

I highly recommend dipping your relay pins in vaseline, this will help prevent corrosion and also makes it easier to get the relays in and out.

 

The other drawing shows how you can add LEDs to the relay bases as a troubleshooting aid, I did this with mine and find it very useful.

The LEDs are wired to contact 87 so that they indicate when the relay contacts are closed, not just when the coil is energized.

Should you decide to go this route, there's a cross piece in the plastic that will make the drill wander, if you make a metal template for drilling the 1/8 hole they will all end up in the same place, not like mine.

Here's a picture of the end result

http://www.v11lemans...attach_id=10124

 

Hope this is of interest

 

Roy

 

 

(edit): updated drawings: See Post # 15 of this thread below:

[Greg Field]

If you are having trouble with your relays. Some of the problems are possibly due to a faulty contact in the base. The attached shows how to remove the connectors from the base so they can be tightened by pinching with a pair of pliers or replaced.

The brass connectors are standard items that can be purchased at any good automotive supply store.

If you are replacing the connectors I highly recommend dipping the wires and relay pins in vaseline, this will prevent oxidation and corrosion and also makes it easier to get the relays in and out.

 

I have also shown how you can add LEDs to the base as a troubleshooting aid. I did this with mine.

The LEDs are wired so that they indicate when the relay contacts are closed, not just when the coil is energized.

 

Hope this is of interest

 

Roy

 

Nice work, Roy!

[gstallons]

Ford Motor Co. sells an electrical (connection sealer and protectant) grease part # F8AZ-19G208-AA and there is a fluid called Stabilant 22 that is a conductivity enhancer I use on critical components.

[docc]

So, Roy,

What gauge wire for the LED? I'm thinking something as small as 18g . . .

Also, how did you route the ground wires? All into one wire? All back to one terminal? To the battery?

(I'm thinking of using different color LEDs just for show!)

[Kiwi_Roy]

Ford Motor Co. sells an electrical (connection sealer and protectant) grease part # F8AZ-19G208-AA and there is a fluid called Stabilant 22 that is a conductivity enhancer I use on critical components.

I'm of the opinion that anything greasy aids contacts, it coats the surface so air (oxidation) and water (corrosion) don't take place.

I learned as an apprentice electrician 45 years ago that petroleum jelly aka vaseline works wonders on battery terminals.

We also used it liberally on the large drum controllers of electric cranes, more for lubrication in that case.

I'm sure there are lots of better greases than plain old vaseline but it's available everywhere.

God's gift to Electrical Contacts I call it.

 

I'm starting to rave like an now

What were we talking about again?

Cheers

Roy

[Kiwi_Roy]

SO, Roy,

 

What gauge wire for the LED? I'm thinking something as small as 18g . . .

 

Also, how did you route the ground wires? All into one wire? All back to one terminal? To the battery?

 

(I'm thinking of using different color LEDs just for show!)

 

Yes, even smaller, most LEDs are rated 20 mA or less.

I used the smallest wire I could find, probably 24 or 28 gauge otherwise it would be too stiff.

Any resistor that gives you 5 - 10 mA will be bright enough.

Yes, some pretty colours might be nice.

I ran a wire daisy chain from each of the negative leads to bolt on the chassis, you could run back to

the negative terminal on each coil but they are not always on the same side.

Some small heat shrink might come in handy.

I marked each point on my Carl Allison drawing, I will get it off the bike later and add to mine.

The starter relay LED is on NO contact, the rest are on when the bike is running,

 

It might be an idea to make a small metal template so when you drill the bases they all end up in the

exact same spot, some of mine wandered off because I drilled right down thru a cross shaped section of plastic.

I will post a picture if I can find my camera cable.

Cheers

Roy

[emry]

Very interesting. Reminds me of those fuses with LEDs built in.

 

Vaseline does work well, I suggest it to customers for preventive battery maintence, but areas that have high ambient temps it can just melt and then drip away making a mess elsewhere. Areas like Arizona, Georgia, etc. I use dielectric grease on other contacts, marketed as Yamaha Brake Caliper Grease (still makes me laugh) it is also is available at most auto stores in cheap little packets for spark plug boots. Its merit have been flogged elsewhere here.

[docc]

The template is a good idea. I was thinking of adding an LED to the NO side of the starter relay to show it is live (that would give the one "five pin" relay two LEDs. Still considering colors. Gotta have colors . . .

 

The debate on electrical "lubricants" remains interesting. Dry, white, powdery, or green certainly is the worst case scenario. Mechanites smarter than I have said that silicon dielectric grease is known to infiltrate wire insulation and relays forming the equivalent of glass under heat cycling. I had since converted to copper anti-seize paste, but I'm not really sure what the 'base' paste is.

[gstallons]

Anti-sieze has copper,nickel,aluminum and other base materials for the anti-sieze agent. Some industries specify different ones. Go figure?

The dielectric grease is actually an insulator instead of a conductor. The copper anti-sieze (I tested a nickel base) shows infinite (non-conductive) resistance on my Fluke meter ?

[Kiwi_Roy]

The template is a good idea. I was thinking of adding an LED to the NO side of the starter relay to show it is live (that would give the one "five pin" relay two LEDs. Still considering colors. Gotta have colors . . .

 

The starter relay has power on all the time through Fuse 5 so if you have an LED on both contacts one will be on without the key. Looking at the layout the best place to put your LED in all cases is terminal 87, the N/O contact. If you wanted to get real fancy you could put one on each coil as well but be aware the polarity on R2 and R5 is backwards in relation to the others.

 

Roy

[docc]

The starter relay has power on all the time through Fuse 5 so if you have an LED on both contacts one will be on without the key. Looking at the layout the best place to put your LED in all cases is terminal 87, the N/O contact. If you wanted to get real fancy you could put one on each coil as well but be aware the polarity on R2 and R5 is backwards in relation to the others.

 

Roy

 

Yes, I see that hot feed from fuse 5 now. No use using two LEDs there.And, I don't think I've ever heard of Relay1 failing in the open position.

 

Looking at an LED for Relay 3: This LED will light when the relay is closed by the neutral switch, but will also light when the sidestand is up and its switch is closed. The LED would only go out with both the stand down and the gearbox in gear. It would make for an easy check on both the sidestand switch and the neutral switch/relay3 circuits. But you would have to look at the LED first in neutral with the sidestand down (neutral switch/relay3 circuit) and in gear with the stand up (sidestand switch/no relay).

 

Thanks for having a look at that relationship. I first saw this with your Note 13 on the Test Point Layout. Am I seeing that right?

[Kiwi_Roy]

Yes, I see that hot feed from fuse 5 now. No use using two LEDs there.And, I don't think I've ever heard of Relay1 failing in the open position.

 

Looking at an LED for Relay 3: This LED will light when the relay is closed by the neutral switch, but will also light when the sidestand is up and its switch is closed. The LED would only go out with both the stand down and the gearbox in gear. It would make for an easy check on both the sidestand switch and the neutral switch/relay3 circuits. But you would have to look at the LED first in neutral with the sidestand down (neutral switch/relay3 circuit) and in gear with the stand up (sidestand switch/no relay).

 

Thanks for having a look at that relationship. I first saw this with your Note 13 on the Test Point Layout. Am I seeing that right?

Good point, that light will allow you to test either.

A second LED across the coil might be good here or perhaps one of the 2 colour variety Red for Prop Stand, Green for Neutral relay, White for both.

BTW Suzuki use an almost identical circuit for their prop-stand / neutral switch. I wonder what % of bikes have the side-stand switch jumpered. Some parts of the world seem to have different requirements as far as these interlocks go.

Regards

Roy

[Kiwi_Roy]

And heres a Photo. I added a strip of aluminum to tie the bases together so they don't flop around.

The nut and bolt at the left is for the common ground point for the LEDs

 

I strongly suggest you make a metal template for drilling the 1/8 hole so they all end up in the same place, not like mine.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[docc]

Good point, that light will allow you to test either.

A second LED across the coil might be good here or perhaps one of the 2 colour variety Red for Prop Stand, Green for Neutral relay, White for both.

BTW Suzuki use an almost identical circuit for their prop-stand / neutral switch. I wonder what % of bikes have the side-stand switch jumpered. Some parts of the world seem to have different requirements as far as these interlocks go.

Regards

Roy

 

Does a two color LED have three leads? Since the neutral switch is a grounding circuit, how would you connect to differentiate whether the current for the run (kill) switch is coming from the neutral switch/relay3 or the sidestand switch?

 

And, oh my, lots of these V11s have had these systems jumpered. I suppose it's best not to stand about in front of them when they're started . . .

[Kiwi_Roy]

Updated drawings:

Relay Base Repair.pdf

Relay Base LEDs.pdf