Joe caruso timing gear install

[Lucky Phil]

8 hours ago, Pressureangle said:

My deep 32mm;

https://ibb.co/XLZZwwq

 

Hows it work with a rattle gun The best and least stressful on the machinery way to remove fasteners like this, the rattle gun.

Ciao   

[Pressureangle]

42 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Hows it work with a rattle gun The best and least stressful on the machinery way to remove fasteners like this, the rattle gun.

Ciao   

I'll disagree, absent someone who can do the math. The rattle gun impacts the teeth, the wrench only applies torque, about 90 lbs-ft. divided by the gear radius. Not an issue.

[Lucky Phil]

34 minutes ago, Pressureangle said:

I'll disagree, absent someone who can do the math. The rattle gun impacts the teeth, the wrench only applies torque, about 90 lbs-ft. divided by the gear radius. Not an issue.

Ok fine, but to anyone out there contemplating this job using a ring spanner to remove the crank and alternator nuts, good luck with it.

Ciao

[docc]

What is the torque value on those nuts? And there are two? both 32mm, but only the deeper crank nut requires the extra deep access?

Mine has been on there some "mileage". Should I expect to apply some heat to break it loose?

[Pressureangle]

13 hours ago, docc said:

What is the torque value on those nuts? And there are two? both 32mm, but only the deeper crank nut requires the extra deep access?

Mine has been on there some "mileage". Should I expect to apply some heat to break it loose?

You don't need heat, you need leverage. An impact gun and appropriate *impact* socket is the least difficult, but you'll have to remove the front wheel for access. I did mine with the 'ring spanner' but I do admit to spending some time sussing out angles, access, and holding the bike in place while I applied torque. 

[Pressureangle]

As an addendum, After installing my gears I developed a front seal leak. I blamed it on the seal, but it turned out to be the seal between the spacer and crankshaft. There's an o-ring inside the spacer sitting in a groove that I didn't see- which was hardened and came out in pieces- and on my '97 there is also a tapered relief in the crank end which was perfect to fit another o-ring as insurance. 
See # 7 & 8.

 

[MartyNZ]

On 5/18/2019 at 12:53 AM, gstallons said:

Question : what type of metal are these gears made of ?

Joe uses a very good grade of steel, EN24T, typical for gear and heavy-duty shaft manufacture. 

On 5/18/2019 at 6:38 AM, GuzziMoto said:

I know they are steel. I do not know what alloy / grade of steel.

Joe says: "Machined from EN24T. This is a Nickel Chromium Molybdenum that combines a good high tensile steel strength with shock resistance, ductility and wear resistance with a tensile strength of 850/1000 N/mm². The Gears are then further surface-hardened by a Tufftride process to give an enhanced surface wear resistance which gives the finished black surface".

International Steel Specification Comparison (EN24T)
BS 970:1955 EN24T
BS 970:1991 817M40T

German / DIN 34CrNiMo6
French AFNOR 35NCD6
American AISI / SAE 4340
German Werkstoff No. 1.6582
European Standard EN10277-5

[Tomchri]

9 hours ago, MartyNZ said:

Joe uses a very good grade of steel, EN24T, typical for gear and heavy-duty shaft manufacture. 

Joe says: "Machined from EN24T. This is a Nickel Chromium Molybdenum that combines a good high tensile steel strength with shock resistance, ductility and wear resistance with a tensile strength of 850/1000 N/mm². The Gears are then further surface-hardened by a Tufftride process to give an enhanced surface wear resistance which gives the finished black surface".

International Steel Specification Comparison (EN24T)
BS 970:1955 EN24T
BS 970:1991 817M40T

German / DIN 34CrNiMo6
French AFNOR 35NCD6
American AISI / SAE 4340
German Werkstoff No. 1.6582
European Standard EN10277-5

Marty, after reading this you totally $§~|\£_^ my mind, soon Christmas right.   It is a sweet upgrade in your head, everything more accurate. Had Pete Jackson gear drive on RB Mopar, and a BB Chevy . Yes perfect timing is of importance.

 Cheers Tom.

[MartyNZ]

52 minutes ago, Tomchri said:

Marty, after reading this you totally $§~|\£_^ my mind, soon Christmas right.   It is a sweet upgrade in your head, everything more accurate. Had Pete Jackson gear drive on RB Mopar, and a BB Chevy . Yes perfect timing is of importance.

 Cheers Tom.

I decided that I had a loose timing chain after a timing light showed erratic movement on the flywheel as rpm increased.

I tried to get video of this, but it was beyond the combined abilities of borescope, old workshop laptop, & me.

The obvious fix was a new chain & tensioner. I chose the more expensive gear replacement because, um...

Now I find that the oil pump is worn. The needle roller inner race is grooved, and the shaft has 1.5mm slop. As the direction of side loads on the pump shaft are opposite when changing from chain to gear, a new one is on order.

A Valpolini gasket is waiting to go on after the timing chest cover is powder coated.

I tried to remind myself of a lesson from my father: "If it's not broken, don't try to fix it", but I'm a slow learner.

[docc]

2 hours ago, MartyNZ said:

Now I find that the oil pump is worn. The needle roller inner race is grooved, and the shaft has 1.5mm slop. As the direction of side loads on the pump shaft are opposite when changing from chain to gear, a new one is on order.
 

A complete, new oil pump (GU30146400) ?

And/ or the "Roller Bearing" 10x22x20 (GU92252210) ?

[How many kays on that V11, @MartyNZ?]

[audiomick]

3 hours ago, MartyNZ said:

... the oil pump is worn...

Are you aware of this? (You need a bit of spare pocket money....)

https://hmb-guzzi.de/Oil-Pump-CNC-1100-cc-models

 

The bloke and his business enjoy a very good reputation in German speaking Guzzi circles.

[MartyNZ]

1 hour ago, audiomick said:

Are you aware of this? (You need a bit of spare pocket money....)

https://hmb-guzzi.de/Oil-Pump-CNC-1100-cc-models

 

The bloke and his business enjoy a very good reputation in German speaking Guzzi circles.

Thanks, AudioMick. What do the German speaking people think of the Stein-Dinse pump? It is a lot cheaper than the HMB pump.

Moto Guzzi Oil pump ŽspezialŽ - big models - Stein-Dinse Online-Shop

[MartyNZ]

2 hours ago, docc said:

A complete, new oil pump (GU30146400) ?

And/ or the "Roller Bearing" 10x22x20 (GU92252210) ?

[How many kays on that V11, @MartyNZ?]

I see that HMB and Stein-Dinse both offer their own alternatives to the MG design, and I believe that the bearings are included. They also both sell the woodruff key GU13148300 that was missing from my pump shaft.

The bike shows 53,326 miles (85,819 km) on the speedo.

[audiomick]

15 hours ago, MartyNZ said:

... What do the German speaking people think of the Stein-Dinse pump? ...

Sorry, can't really say much about that, because I haven't heard mention of it, or can't remember having heard.

However, SD is a well respected supplier. I dare say it is ok.

[MartyNZ]

On 1/7/2023 at 9:27 AM, MartyNZ said:

Now I find that the oil pump is worn. The needle roller inner race is grooved, and the shaft has 1.5mm slop. As the direction of side loads on the pump shaft are opposite when changing from chain to gear, a new one is on order.

A new bearing has fixed the shaft slop. It cost $40 instead of a mega squillion for another pump.

The new bearing has full length needle rollers instead of two sets of short rollers. 

Roller Bearing P/N NKI10/20, size 10x22x20 (same as GU92252210).