Charging the battery hooked up in the bike - bad idea?

[al_roethlisberger]

I ask this question as I've seen it mentioned briefly in some threads about faulty voltage regulators, etc.  but I wondered is it really a bad idea to trickle charge the battery completely hooked up on the bike?

 

I've done this for years on the 2002 Le Mans and other bikes with no ill effects over winters, and frankly sometimes a lot longer, but have I dodged a bullet that I was unaware of?

 

In my case, I have one of the the "BMW powerlet ports" in my fairing of the Le Mans, directly connected to the battery (fused in-line) for accessories, but I often also plugged my Battery Tender into the port to trickle charge the battery.   The Battery Tender even came with this male "BMW powerlet" connector as an accessory for this very purpose.

 

 

 

 

[MartyNZ]

It's fine to charge a battery while it is connected in the bike if it has the original regulator. 

A good quality intelligent charger will avoid overcharging and possibly harming the battery. Docc has written a lot about the right way to charge an AGM battery. https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18838

I bought a Shorai balance charger for the Shorai LFX21L6-BS12 battery in my bike, and it is designed to stay connected in maintenance mode, while the battery is still in the bike. The Ducati regulator hasn't missed a beat (after I fixed some bad connectors and grounds).

 

The regulator blocks reverse current discharge from the battery with the engine stopped, and it can do this easily, whether it faces battery 12volts or charger 14volts. Regulators go bad from high voltage spikes (bad earths, intermittent output connections, poor 30A fuse contact), or internal circuit board corrosion damage. A battery charger won't hurt the standard regulator.

 

...and I see that Kiwi_Roy has already answered a similar question here https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19672&page=6&do=findComment&comment=235824

Edited December 11, 2018 by MartyNZ

[al_roethlisberger]

Any risk with other regulator types, like the MOSFET alternatives?

[docc]

The source of the opinion that "jump starting or charging" should be performed with the regulator disconnected is a warning added to the invoice for the OEM Ducati Energia regulator sourced from EuroMotoElectrics in Colorado, USA. They also "strongly recommend" a dedicated ground to regulator case (which we know is gospel truth).  I have not spoken with them directly as to the rationale or support for this rather strong warning on the disconnect.

 

While I know of folks that have used "Battery Tenders," or the equivalent, to leave their Odyssey on indefinitely, Hawker doesn't recommend it because of the typically substandard float voltage (13.1-13.2). In fact the Odyssey manufacturer,  EnerSys/Hawker states that low float voltages (below 13.2v) will damage the battery. Correct float voltage for an Odyssey AGM (once "charged!") is 13.5-13.8v.

 

Also, realize that if the battery is below 12.65v (~85% @ 77ºF/25ºC), it will not charge without at least 6 amps bringing it up to 14.7v.  Dedicated AGM chargers 'should' do this, but I have returned chargers that did not demonstrate correct AGM charge voltages during the charge cycles. Hawker has a list of approved chargers.

[MartyNZ]

I suspect that the Energia warning to disconnect during charging is due to some chargers having a desulfation mode. That mode applies higher voltage pulses in an attempt to restore sulfated plates.

This regulator manufacturer seems to be unsure that their blocking diodes can withstand the desulfation pulses.

There is no industry standard on pulse voltage, duration or frequency in desulfation mode. It is a partially effective but relatively brutal electrical process, so perhaps it would be best to disconnect the ground (- ve) terminal from a battery if you were going to use a desulfation charger.

 

Why disconnect the ground terminal rather than the + positive? It avoids sparks if/when you touch the ECU with the spanner. Don't ask how I know this.

[LowRyter]

I am using $5 Harbor Freight trickle chargers on my bikes.  I've been on vacation the last 10 days and I took the Greenie for a ride today after it's been sitting at least 2 1/2 weeks and boy it started quick.  Ran the EV yesterday and it spun right off too.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The Ducati Energia regulator is fitted with diodes snd SCRs on the connection to the battery, these are typically rated at least 200 Volts

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MartyNZ]

I thought I'd check some numbers, since I can't understand the warning on the Ducati Energia invoice.

I pulled out a Repco seven stage battery charger model NS-12V8A, part no RBC87S, common in NZ and Australia.
I hooked it to a light truck battery, through long cables and a 100ohm resistor, trying to imitate a badly sulphated battery. Charger output measured at the charger was pulses at half second intervals of 12.48 V (low) to 14.78 V (high). Charge current was almost unreadable pulses on a 10A meter. The voltage at the battery (upstream of the resistor) was steady at 12.62V.

 

Removing the 100ohm resistor changed things a lot. The charger switched to Bulk Charge mode, supplying 6A at 14.5V.

My conclusion is that this particular charger cannot harm a Ducati regulator if it is left connected to the battery.
15V will not challenge the 200V rating mentioned by Kiwi_Roy.

[docc]

" . . . this particular charger . . ." 

[al_roethlisberger]

I thought I'd check some numbers, since I can't understand the warning on the Ducati Energia invoice.

I pulled out a Repco seven stage battery charger model NS-12V8A, part no RBC87S, common in NZ and Australia.

I hooked it to a light truck battery, through long cables and a 100ohm resistor, trying to imitate a badly sulphated battery. Charger output measured at the charger was pulses at half second intervals of 12.48 V (low) to 14.78 V (high). Charge current was almost unreadable pulses on a 10A meter. The voltage at the battery (upstream of the resistor) was steady at 12.62V.

 

Removing the 100ohm resistor changed things a lot. The charger switched to Bulk Charge mode, supplying 6A at 14.5V.

My conclusion is that this particular charger cannot harm a Ducati regulator if it is left connected to the battery.

15V will not challenge the 200V rating mentioned by Kiwi_Roy.

 

Thanks, and this has been my experience for 15+ years of using AGM batteries and a standard Battery Tender (not even an AGM rated one) leaving it on the bike.

 

The last AGM battery lasted over 10 years.

[docc]

 

I thought I'd check some numbers, since I can't understand the warning on the Ducati Energia invoice.

I pulled out a Repco seven stage battery charger model NS-12V8A, part no RBC87S, common in NZ and Australia.

I hooked it to a light truck battery, through long cables and a 100ohm resistor, trying to imitate a badly sulphated battery. Charger output measured at the charger was pulses at half second intervals of 12.48 V (low) to 14.78 V (high). Charge current was almost unreadable pulses on a 10A meter. The voltage at the battery (upstream of the resistor) was steady at 12.62V.

 

Removing the 100ohm resistor changed things a lot. The charger switched to Bulk Charge mode, supplying 6A at 14.5V.

My conclusion is that this particular charger cannot harm a Ducati regulator if it is left connected to the battery.

15V will not challenge the 200V rating mentioned by Kiwi_Roy.

 

Thanks, and this has been my experience for 15+ years of using AGM batteries and a standard Battery Tender (not even an AGM rated one) leaving it on the bike.

 

The last AGM battery lasted over 10 years.

 

And your regulator(s)?

 

My third R/R is pushing 38,000 miles/ 61.000 km (first two: 37,200 and 34,600). This is the only one to benefit from the additional grounding.

 

Please remember, y'all, one of my goals in discovering and pursuing "best practices" conditioning the AGM batteries has been to allow my charging system a gentler life. I've long had fun saying the V11 has a charging system like a G-string.

 

One other goal has been not to use start reliability as the prime indicator of battery/charging status. I don't want to be the guy who is halfway into a ride with others, halfway up the mountainside, in the cold fog, only to discover a battery/charge failure that could have been discoverable in my own garage with some careful checks and a quality voltmeter.