al_roethlisberger Posted December 23, 2018 Posted December 23, 2018 I've never been a huge fan of the plastic reservoirs on motorcycle front brake and clutch fluid reservoirs, preferring instead the all metal integrated fluid reservoirs as are often seen on cruiser or non-race-replica motorcycles. I know one can replace the plastic reservoirs with metal "can" versions, etc, and I in fact have some aluminum replacements from Rizoma. But even those seem like less than clean solutions than reservoirs that are integrated into the lever assembly. So I was wondering if anyone has tried fitting some of the integrated reservoir levers from one of the Moto Guzzi cruisers, or if no one has tried it, if you think it might work fine?
swooshdave Posted December 23, 2018 Posted December 23, 2018 I can't. Won't clear the fairing. https://www.amazon.com/Oumurs-Motorcycle-Cylinder-Reservoir-Universal/dp/B0799JT9D5/ref=pd_sbs_263_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0799JT9D5&pd_rd_r=12d3b707-066c-11e9-a7c6-2fa816d9f586&pd_rd_w=WvrAQ&pd_rd_wg=JvKkU&pf_rd_p=7d5d9c3c-5e01-44ac-97fd-261afd40b865&pf_rd_r=5NC91F6BX5K7WY9P2RZ7&psc=1&refRID=5NC91F6BX5K7WY9P2RZ7
pete roper Posted December 23, 2018 Posted December 23, 2018 They are driving the same calipers so the brake one will work fine. From memory of another thread the slave cylinder on the clutch circuit is a smaller diameter than those on the CARC bikes or Cali 14. I have second handles of both on the shelf if you'd like to try them? Usual story, I send them to you, if you like them 1/2 new price. I cover postage your way on the understanding that if you use them you cover that cost as a donation to Medicienes sans frontiers. If you don't use them you send them back at your cost. Pete 1
al_roethlisberger Posted December 23, 2018 Author Posted December 23, 2018 I can't. Won't clear the fairing. Hrmm, I'm not sure that fairing clearance would be the case. I actually think that the fairing clearance is a tighter tolerance with the existing plastic reservoirs. Take a look at the photo below, and given where the integrated reservoirs would now be, I'm not sure they would interfere since they would be inboard of the grips and tight up against the bars. Though, it would also be an open question if the integrated reservoir would clear the clip-on pinch bolts. These levers with integrated reservoirs could be built to fit standard tubular (not clip on) bars. But to be sure, one would have to test of course.
al_roethlisberger Posted December 23, 2018 Author Posted December 23, 2018 They are driving the same calipers so the brake one will work fine. From memory of another thread the slave cylinder on the clutch circuit is a smaller diameter than those on the CARC bikes or Cali 14. I have second handles of both on the shelf if you'd like to try them? Usual story, I send them to you, if you like them 1/2 new price. I cover postage your way on the understanding that if you use them you cover that cost as a donation to Medicienes sans frontiers. If you don't use them you send them back at your cost. Pete Wow, once again you are the best Pete, that's a fantastic offer! I'm not in a position to do anything with the levers for a while so I'll let you know. I may see if I can find a wrecked one uber-cheap first just to check if it physically fits. Crashed ones pop up on eBay every so often. But if I find that they do fit I'll check with you to see if you still have them. On the question of the clutch slave, how would we know if it would work or be a problem if the master and slave size don't match? Would it be a "feel" problem or cause damage to the seals (blowout?) on the slave side for example?
pete roper Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 It's the ratio between the master and slave which is important. Find out the piston diameter of both master cylinders. If they are the same it means my worries are unfounded. The thing that usually busts off the masters with an integrated reservoir is the mirror mounts. Since you won't be using them I wouldn't think a busted one would be fine. I have at least one of those hanging around for the brake side I'm sure. Not certain about clutch side. I do have them, just not conveniently busted ones for certain. I also have both CARC bike type which are rectangular and I've wrecked out a Cali14 too which have different shaped reservoirs I think but same piston sizes. I'll have to check but most of this shit is in my offsider Michael's shed and since he damaged himself a lot of his other stuff, including his car, has been moved into the shed and some things are hard to get to but over the Christmas/New Year period I'll get in and have a bit of a dig. Pete 1
al_roethlisberger Posted February 20, 2023 Author Posted February 20, 2023 This is a super old thread, but I was doing a little research into this while considering with what to replace my aging, and leaking, Rizoma aluminum reservoirs. So I thought I would provide an update. Although I never did obtain a brake master cylinder from a California-style bike to physically test fitment, I did find that our "Brembo gold" front brake master cylinder is a 16mm bore. 37660105 - $140.60 - Brembo hand brake master cylinder, 16mm 10505316 [37660105] : MG Cycle, Moto Guzzi Parts and Accessories available online at MGCycle.com However the brake master cylinder as used on the California-style bikes with the dual disc Brembo gold calipers is 13mm. 30660180 - $149.19 - Brembo master cylinder with lever, 13mm EV Jackal Bassa [30660180] : MG Cycle, Moto Guzzi Parts and Accessories available online at MGCycle.com I can find at least a couple of the California-style master cylinder/levers on eBay for less than $40 used to test fitment, but there is no point if the difference in bore makes it functionally incompatible. Since the brake calipers appear to be the same in type (4 piston each, Brembo gold) and quantity (2 calipers) between the V11 Sport/Lemans and the California with the dual front disks, perhaps the California master cylinder would still work given the different bore, but I wonder what the feel and brake performance would then be? Would that present a problem, especially from a safety perspective? @pete roper Any additional thoughts on compatibility and functionality given the additional information above about the front brake master cylinder?
audiomick Posted February 20, 2023 Posted February 20, 2023 As far as I understand it (which may not be 100%...) a smaller bore master cylinder should result in a lighter lever, but more travel in the lever. 1
GuzziMoto Posted February 20, 2023 Posted February 20, 2023 Yeah, a smaller master cylinder bore with the same size(s) slave cylinder will require more travel to move the same fluid and thus apply the same pressure. A difference from 13mm to 16mm is pretty large. Odd that Guzzi would use a 13mm master with twin caliper brakes. A 13mm master is usually for single caliper brakes. For example, I think the V7 single disk brakes use a 13mm master. You should be able to find a 16mm unit with an integral reservoir, even if it isn't from a Guzzi. The system doesn't know Guzzi or not. I would look for a quality master for a modern sportbike. For the brake side, the newer CARC bikes might be a good source. But if they use a different size for the clutch that might not provide the right feel, effort, and travel. As mentioned, a smaller master with the same size slave will mean less effort required but more travel at the lever required for the same travel / force at the slave.. A larger master with the same size slave typically means more effort required but less travel at the lever to accomplish the same amount of travel / force at the slave. That said, I would be concerned about everything clearing the fairing even when turned all the way. The remote reservoir allows it to be moved just inboard of the fairing. Of course, I don't have a Lemans, so I could be wrong. Maybe there is plenty of room.
docc Posted February 20, 2023 Posted February 20, 2023 Those "California" brakes are not "linked?" As such, the front master would only be applied to one front caliper . . . 1
GuzziMoto Posted February 20, 2023 Posted February 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, docc said: Those "California" brakes are not "linked?" As such, the front master would only be applied to one front caliper . . . That would explain it, if the 13mm master only ran one of the two front calipers and the other was off the rear brake master. 1 1
audiomick Posted February 20, 2023 Posted February 20, 2023 4 hours ago, GuzziMoto said: ... if the 13mm master only ran one of the two front calipers and the other was off the rear brake master. That rings a bell. My V35 Imola has the "Integrale" system. The hand lever operates the right hand disc on the front. The other one is on the foot pedal with the rear brake. The wheel cylinders are P08, I think. If I remember rightly, the foot brake master cylinder is PS15 or PS16, and the hand master cylinder is PS13. The hand brake has the feel of a house brick. The reccomendations that I have seen are, I believe, for a PS11 to provide a front brake that actually has some feel.
al_roethlisberger Posted February 21, 2023 Author Posted February 21, 2023 4 hours ago, docc said: Those "California" brakes are not "linked?" As such, the front master would only be applied to one front caliper . . . That almost certainly explains it Realizing that, it probably then isn't a good solution to use that California master cylinder. 2
docc Posted February 21, 2023 Posted February 21, 2023 Yep, the deeper you dig, the more you find that a V11 Sport is not just an "EV" in a party dress . . . 1 1
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now