Shift Spring and Shifting Issue 03 6 Speed

[antmanbee]

The bike shifts fine from 1st to 2nd and back to first. It does not want to shift to third unless I push the shifter back down a ways and then up shift into third. If i push it down a ways again I can get it into 4th.

I didn't try any higher gears. It down shifts ok.

I have in my possession one of scuds springs. Will this resolve my problem?

I thought I had read  that if the spring breaks you will just be stuck in whatever gear you happened to be in when it broke.

So is this a different issue or a variation of the broken spring problem?

 

I am attaching a photo of the bike just because I am excited to have it at least somewhat on the road. My engine swap was a success and the clutch feels fine too.

It sounds great with those pipes and starts right up and runs smooth.

[docc]

Wow, man! So great you have this V11 back on the road!    Welldone and congratulations! antmanbee !

 

Now time for the fettling and fine tuning . . .

 

First order of business to to asses and adjust the external shift mechanism. Observe whether anything in that train of parts strikes any obstruction in the throw. Look to see that the two "pawls" that attach to the connecting rod are parallel. If there is excessive play in the foot lever, shim it to the subframe and adjust the tension on the pivot bolt/ lock nut so that the pivot is free, but no excessive play.

 

(I'm looking for an image of that "parallelogram" arrangement  . . .)

[docc]

Shim stock for the pivot:

[docc]

Go to this thread to see the full image:

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18593&p=198257

 

[Scud]

First - you never need to explain why you posted pics. We love pics.

 

This sounds very much like a shift linkage problem. There are many places that things can rub (such as if you have the front screw by the starter in backwards) or bind (such as over-tightening the long pivot bolt). If the bike's been sitting a while, I would just pull out all the linkage parts, clean 'em up and reassemble carefully with fresh grease. Keep the Chuck-n-Scud spring under the seat in case your original breaks.

 

You are semi-stuck in gear if the spring breaks. If you hit the brakes hard (especially when going downhill), you can get the pawl arm to flop forward.  You get one shift after each time you successfully get the arm to flop forward. This is the voice of experience... 

[antmanbee]

Here is a picture of the shifter. Looks pretty parallel to me.

There is a little nick in the paint on the pork chop, but if that was the problem wouldn't that only affect down shifting and first gear?

I have a problem up shifting except for second.

[docc]

The connections ("pawls") look splayed to me, buddy.  Shortening the connector shaft may be worthwhile.

 

This would be a good starting point, to fully fettle and tune this shift mechanism. Totally worth the effort before cracking into the gearbox, itself.

 

Cycle it while looking for binding points. It is a mess of a thing with lots of potential binding points.

[antmanbee]

If I shorten the connector shaft it will make it more likely for the shifter to hit the pork chop.

If I move the arm on the trans one tooth clockwise first then I could shorten the connector shaft and slightly lift the shifter arm so it would not contact the pork chop.

[docc]

If I shorten the connector shaft it will make it more likely for the shifter to hit the pork chop.

If I move the arm on the trans one tooth clockwise first then I could shorten the connector shaft and slightly lift the shifter arm so it would not contact the pork chop.

Yeah,  bud. There ya go.  Consider removing the pivot bolt and servicing the whole shebang.

 

you've got this!

[Lucky Phil]

The bike shifts fine from 1st to 2nd and back to first. It does not want to shift to third unless I push the shifter back down a ways and then up shift into third. If i push it down a ways again I can get it into 4th.

I didn't try any higher gears. It down shifts ok.

I have in my possession one of scuds springs. Will this resolve my problem?

I thought I had read  that if the spring breaks you will just be stuck in whatever gear you happened to be in when it broke.

So is this a different issue or a variation of the broken spring problem?

 

I am attaching a photo of the bike just because I am excited to have it at least somewhat on the road. My engine swap was a success and the clutch feels fine too.

It sounds great with those pipes and starts right up and runs smooth.

I've come to the conclusion that whatever paint scheme draws the eye to focus and centralize the image on the engine and fuel tank works for the V11. Looks good. Have you messed with the shift eccentric adjuster on the gearbox access cover?

 

Ciao  

[Steve S]

I've seen this problem on 2 V11s and about a month ago found the cause on a mates bike, its the ratchet arm on the selector plate that fails to drop onto the next pin to select the next gear, a small amount of work with a round file cured the problem, if you remove the selector plate I can show you what to do and you may as well fit a modified spring at the same time

[antmanbee]

One thing to keep in mind is that this bike sat for a decade at least. Always stored inside.

I had talked to the original owner and I am pretty sure that there was no shifting issues when the engine self destructed. Only 5800mi on the bike.

The clutch disks measured to new specs.

I changed the gear oil last weekend before I started up the bike for the first time. The old oil looked clean with no moisture.

I put in GL5 80W-90 dino. I did drain the trans when it was cold. The level is about half way up on the window.

I have not as yet got the bike completely warmed up as I only road it for less than 5 minutes, just around the block twice. Probably less than a mile.

I am thinking maybe something like SteveS mentioned could be the issue, but due to selector plate just being a little gummed up after sitting for so long.

This evening I will take it out again for at least 15 minutes to get it thoroughly warmed up and see what happens.

Maybe switching to that miracle pink oil I keep hearing about will magically fix it.

[Chuck]

Very seldom will a liquid solution fix a mechanical problem.   

 

 

I have in my possession one of scuds springs. Will this resolve my problem?

 

Nope, it's not the pawl spring. It *could* be the return spring, but as others have said, it's probably just a linkage issue.

[antmanbee]

Well I took it out today for about 15-20 minutes and it started out a bit hard shifting but not as bad as the maiden voyage for the 2 laps around the block the other day.

It got progressively better to the point of perfect just by riding and getting it warmed up.

My theory is that the old oil was a little gummy and even though I drained and changed it, there was still probably some sticky oil higher up on the selector plate components.

With a bit of warm gear oil splashing about everything loosened up.

Next on my agenda is a good tune. My Saturday morning task. 

Once again thanks for all the feedback and suggestions.

One observation is that the noise when the clutch is pulled in seems a bit louder than my Jackal or Calvin. Just wondering why. Possibly my imagination. 

[docc]

One observation is that the noise when the clutch is pulled in seems a bit louder than my Jackal or Calvin. Just wondering why. Possibly my imagination. 

Lighter flywheel?