V11 Daytona project

[Chuck]

Just standing back and holding my thumb up and looking at it, I'd think it should be .2 total, although the picture is ambiguous.

[Lucky Phil]

34 minutes ago, Chuck said:

Just standing back and holding my thumb up and looking at it, I'd think it should be .2 total, although the picture is ambiguous.

Thanks Chuck, I tend to agree, it certainly feels more correct and wouldn't be as noisy either I don't think. I just gave Brad Black a call and he was of the same mind so that's 3 to zip so I'll go with that.

Brad also gave me the number of a local business that makes shims to order which is also a big help. I'll submit and order for a quote from them and see what the damage is. None of my Ducati gearbox shims are quite right unfortunately, nor are my stash of general shims.

Ciao  

[pete roper]

I would add to the consensus. 0.4 is almost 1/2 a mm and while I don't think it would do any harm it would contribute greatly to the 'Two cheese graters fornicating in an iron tank' racket from the top end that you will be able to hear above the noise of cats screwing from the belts.

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, pete roper said:

I would add to the consensus. 0.4 is almost 1/2 a mm and while I don't think it would do any harm it would contribute greatly to the 'Two cheese graters fornicating in an iron tank' racket from the top end that you will be able to hear above the noise of cats screwing from the belts.

Thanks for your input Pete, we are all in furious agreement then

I've ordered some custom shims which I should have next week.

Ciao 

[Kevin_T]

I would have gotten back sooner but I still need to do a few things before I really get into the motor. What I did get (with a feeler gauge) is left cylinder exhaust rocker arm .004 inch, intake rocker arm .008 inch. The right cylinder exhaust rocker arm .010 inch, intake rocker arm .009 I believe this is what the factory passed on. So .008 or .2 mm should be correct I would think any expansion would only increase this dim.

[Lucky Phil]

4 hours ago, Kevin_T said:

I would have gotten back sooner but I still need to do a few things before I really get into the motor. What I did get (with a feeler gauge) is left cylinder exhaust rocker arm .004 inch, intake rocker arm .008 inch. The right cylinder exhaust rocker arm .010 inch, intake rocker arm .009 I believe this is what the factory passed on. So .008 or .2 mm should be correct I would think any expansion would only increase this dim.

Thanks Kevin, I'll go with .2. I managed to juggle shims around as they are all a little different and got 2 rockers in tolerance but 2 are nowhere near. It seems the inconsistency is in the rocker length not the carrier

Ciao   

[Lucky Phil]

Well its been a busy time with other stuff unfortunately such as my lathe breaking down and requiring motor disassembly and centrifugal switch work and a new start capacitor. Its still a work in progress as I await the new capacitor.The rocker shims arrived and a new learning in the form of a rocker arm with end faces that aren't machined perpendicular with the pivot axis so getting the end float right is a matter of using the smallest gap. Its too awkward to hold in the lathe to machine the faces and I dont think it will be an issue so I'll leave it as is.

 

The new Oil pressure spring also arrived so it was onto testing the crack pressure with that fitted. It wasnt a successful outcome I'm afraid. The new spring is around 2 mm longer than the old spring but its still not enough to get me the required 70psi crack pressure. Even if I shim the spring to a silly amount its still not enough. So after time spent lapping the valve and getting the sealing faces as perfect as they are ever going to be I'm here to say that there is no way 70 psi of oil pressure is possible with this spring. I figure that the valve will need a minimum of 6mm of stroke. The spring with 18mm of preload will accomplish that but all I can achieve is 55psi crack pressure.

The new std spring is in the 10.8lb of seat pressure at 18 mm of preload. So either I accept 55 psi or look for a heavier spring. 

So here's one for the more knowledgeable than I. I have tested the new springs at 0.6lbs/mm ( I know mixed parameters) so at 18mm of preload I'll have a seat pressure of 10.8 lbs. My calculation for spring pressure required is as follows. Assuming I need 70psi, for crack pressure and assuming I had 1 sq inch of piston/valve area then Id need a spring that provides 70lbs of seat force. What I actually have is a valve that presents 95.4 sq/mm to the oil supply which is 14.8% the area of 1 sq/in (which is 645.16 sq/mm) so 14.8% of 70 pounds is 10.36 pounds of seat pressure required. The new spring is giving 10.8lbs of seat pressure and I'm nowhere near the 70psi crack pressure. Any Ideas? Is my spring rationale calculation lacking?   

Spring tester.

New spring

Old spring

New spring

Old spring

 

Ciao

 

[Lucky Phil]

Original oil pressure relief valve spring on the left and replacement on the right. Original wont get you past 55psi crack pressure, new spring takes you to the 70psi required. 

Heads are on, just sump to fit, prime the oil system then fit the oil pump drive, front cover and do the cam timing.

 

Ciao

[Lucky Phil]

Worked on the sump and oil system today. Fitted it all up along with the ubiquitous Roper Plate. Engine kind of looks like a beach whale now resting on its flywheel. Next mission is to make a wooden engine support for the sump so I can get it upright again and pre oil the engine. For all the external fasteners I invested in all new Titanium fasteners. I cant stand the way passive plated ones weather and look horrible after a while. They are costly but if you sell the bike you can always swap them back to the std type and the new owner wont care or be the wiser. Its only nutters like me that will know,and everyone here now.

New filter screen.

    

Very nice oil filter access plate thanks to scudd.

 

[Lucky Phil]

My $10US Chinese ignition sensor showed up today 6 week or so after ordering. Quality looks ok, time will tell with regard to robustness I guess but at the replacement cost of a genuine one I'm willing to give it a try. I wouldnt mind buying the OEM one if it was what I consider a reasonable cost of say $60 but at the frankly outrageous price they charge I'll give this a go.

  

Ciao

[sp838]

wow $280 from Harpers! You could just buy these in bulk for an even bigger discount and replace them once a month at that price... 

[Lucky Phil]

5 minutes ago, sp838 said:

wow $280 from Harpers! You could just buy these in bulk for an even bigger discount and replace them once a month at that price... 

Yes, they're having a lend at $280 same, same as every other Guzzi dealer.

Ciao  

[Kiwi_Roy]

Run the Chinese sensor by all means it might be fine but carry another spare

I would rather have a used spare from a parts bike.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lucky Phil]

4 hours ago, Kiwi_Roy said:

Run the Chinese sensor by all means it might be fine but carry another spare

I would rather have a used spare from a parts bike.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually have the original Roy which checks out ok with the multimeter although you can see where its been contacting the phonic wheel, but its very old and the wiring is stiff and lost its flexibility. Thought I'd take the opportunity to fit a new one as its a pain on the Daytona with the engine in the chassis.

Anyway Roy I went on your recommendation..... 

 

Ciao 

[Lucky Phil]

Well I managed to get the engine upright on the bench with the help of my son who visited last night. This is one heavy sucker. God knows how I'm going to get it off the bench once the front cover etc is on, maybe a 3 man job.

getting it upright allowed me to fill the engine with oil and go through a pre oiling procedure. Put a pair of 13mm nuts on the oil pump drive and rotated it with my battery drill until oil emerged from the front main and cam bearings. Pulled the rocker covers and yep,oil in the heads and rocker pins. Now to assemble the front of the engine and do the cam timing.

  

Oil present and accounted for.

Ciao