V11 Daytona project

[po18guy]

Oddly (maybe not), my airbox lid has no recycling symbol on it. Perhaps even more strange is that it carries the 'e11' mark, which seems to be the UK certification of motor vehicle safety and environmental acceptability, issued to the UK by the EU authorities. The part itself appears to be 'blow molded', in that the outer dimensions are controlled and texturized by the mold, while the material thickness fluctuates somewhat and interior dimensions are smooth and less consistent. Such a manufacturing process tends to favor a thermoplastic - but in recent decades, many new and hybrid types of plastic have entered the market. So, back to the start: who knows? Acerbis may not even remember...

As well, the box itself may consist of an entirely different material, formed differently. :shrug:

[Lucky Phil]

11 minutes ago, po18guy said:

Oddly (maybe not), my airbox lid has no recycling symbol on it. Perhaps even more strange is that it carries the 'e11' mark, which seems to be the UK certification of motor vehicle safety and environmental acceptability, issued to the UK by the EU authorities. The part itself appears to be 'blow molded', in that the outer dimensions are controlled and texturized by the mold, while the material thickness fluctuates somewhat and interior dimensions are smooth and less consistent. Such a manufacturing process tends to favor a thermoplastic - but in recent decades, many new and hybrid types of plastic have entered the market. So, back to the start: who knows? Acerbis may not even remember...

As well, the box itself may consist of an entirely different material, formed differently. :shrug:

Acerbis got back to me and said to contact Guzzi as it was made to their specs. Should have realised that would;d be the case. Anyway its sorted now with a strong and decent result by lets call it airless plastic brazing. Polyethylene rods used as a hot glue. Not welded but closer to brazed.

    

Ciao

[po18guy]

Nice work - proving that perseverance pays off. We apparently love these bikes inasmuch as nothing is simple. Maybe a plug change and air in the tires. Outside of that, we repeat or invent Italian curses and/or become impromptu Guzzi engineers (and darned good ones at that!).

[Chuck]

Attaboy. The material looks like glass filled polypropylene that we used to mold high strength parts out of at GM. When making prototypes, I used much the same process. I had a big hunker soldering iron that would make (sort of) a bead that I filled with the same material.

[Lucky Phil]

8 hours ago, Chuck said:

Attaboy. The material looks like glass filled polypropylene that we used to mold high strength parts out of at GM. When making prototypes, I used much the same process. I had a big hunker soldering iron that would make (sort of) a bead that I filled with the same material.

Ok Chuck interesting. No fibres here though. The airbox material is quite strange in that it doesnt actually melt so you cant melt the base material and combine it with a filler rod like welding you need to abandon trying to melt the base material and use the filler rod like bronze welding or brazing or soldering. If you put a hot iron against it it will eventually produce a black liquid which at first I thought was melted material but when it dried it was rock hard brittle. I think it was just oils being excreted under high heat. If you hit it with a heat gun on full temp it just goes all rubbery but wont actually melt, but it does float in water. I'm still thinking its a cross linked Polyethylene but for anyone wanting to join it the method I have used seems really sound.

BTW docc I think the inlet trumpets will be the same material, I have an old butchered one I'll material test when I get a chance. I've done hours of reading on plastic in the last week and its a very complex and involved topic. Pretty soon most of an internal combustion engine will be made from it with lots of serious research being done on using it for crankshafts,engine blocks,rods and even exhaust systems. Weight reduction being the primary aim. presently intake manifolds,rocker covers,cooling system fittings and oil pans are the major components usually made from a nylon base material but within 10 years it seems most of the engine will be plastic.

My wife now understands why I'm lying awake at 3am most nights

Ciao

[Lucky Phil]

I'm calling the airbox done.The modified area could be better aesthetically but this plastic is almost impossible to finish nicely. I might make some little 1/4 moon 1mm thick ally plates to cover the modified area painted black and attached by some small PK screws to make it look nicer but once the side covers go on I doubt you'll notice the area. 

Ciao

[docc]

Nicely done, mate! Love how you set up the intakes to cool the fuel filter and R/R! 

The determination to retain the airbox and sidecovers really impresses/

You should be right-ready to ship her in for the next (US) South'n Spine Raid! 

[po18guy]

Work is progressing very nicely! I see the snorkels cut right about where I plan on trimming mine back to. From there forward, I'd "like" to run red silicone car turbo hose to just above the oil cooler, with screened openings. Ah, dreams...anyway, we've seen the fabricated sheet metal (alloy) valve covers for Yank and Aussie V8s. Would be really nice, really pretty (really $$$) if a shop could fab a polished, tig-welded alloy airbox, larger intake openings being part of the package. 

Speed of thought advancing to "tepid" here, the airbox lid is a simple shape. A sheet of .250"/6mm ABS, some cutting and some gluing might just provide a reasonable alternative. And, I can make the intakes the size I want - space between tank and frame as the runners go forward being the limiter. 3.00 inch/76mm silicone tubing could be compressed to oval shape between tank and frame I suppose.

What I really need: 1) more energy or 2) a younger workmate to carry out the work, and/or 3) warmer weather. With patience, I'll get #3. 

[Lucky Phil]

3 hours ago, docc said:

Nicely done, mate! Love how you set up the intakes to cool the fuel filter and R/R! 

The determination to retain the airbox and sidecovers really impresses/

You should be right-ready to ship her in for the next (US) South'n Spine Raid! 

Yes docc the math behind the cooling airflow was complicated:)

Cant stand the idea of ditching a decently working airbox, dumbest move ever.

Maybe I'll get there one day.

Ciao 

[pete roper]

If there was one thing I'd like to see made punishable by tarring and feathering it's throwing away air boxes and fitting 'Pods'. Pod filters, especially labyrinth filters like K & N's, are the work of the devil and should be ruthlessly stamped out!

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, pete roper said:

If there was one thing I'd like to see made punishable by tarring and feathering it's throwing away air boxes and fitting 'Pods'. Pod filters, especially labyrinth filters like K & N's, are the work of the devil and should be ruthlessly stamped out!

I agree Pete. Losing the airbox was never an option for me.

Ciao 

[pete roper]

A popular mod on Grisos is drilling the airbox lid or removing it entirely. It is, without a doubt, one of the most spectacularly useless modifications one can make achieving nothing apart from exposing the filter to the risk of damage. Adding a rock strainer filter as well is also popular with the only 'Benefits' being a lot of tiring noise and rapid ring and bore wear!

Very early in the piece I tried the airbox lid trick on my 1200, why not? Lids are cheap and it was a lazy five minutes with a hole saw. A trip to the dyno revealed a staggering peak power increase of 0.2 hp and the torque curve looked like the trail left by a drunken spider dipped in ink! Couldn't be arsed harassing anyone to build a specific map for such a mod, just slapped the unmodified lid back on and called it good. Since then a lot more experimentation has been done and we've found the best combination to be stock airbox and filter, snorkel removed and a proper log built map.

I'd bet a motza that the same would be true of the V11 airbox but without the snorkel deletion as they don't have one.

[Lucky Phil]

So I got tired of trying to find a paint match for the Greenie frame. Did a lot of research mainly historical here and on the interweb and anything that was suggested as really good wasnt available here so I went bugger it and got 500ml of 2 pack matched.

My r/h pork chop was faded and polishing it didnt help so I thought now was the time to address it. The main frame isnt too bad and I need to paint the front frame support where I removed the horn and regulator bracket as well.

Here's the result from an automotive paint supply places special machine. The top 10mm where my fingerprint is (doh) is the new paint. Good enough for me. I asked if he could cross reference what the machine came up with to a code or particular car model with the same shade. Unfortunately not. 

With the piece in your hand its only the surface finish due to my fingerprint that gives it away, the colour is as close to perfect as you'll get. BTW the guy didnt tell me about the wet area just handed it back to me with the tin of paint. Must be some old paint guys party trick:)

 

Ciao

[Lucky Phil]

Looks like a step backwards. Side plates and front support removed for painting and finish removal of the remains of the old horn/regulator bracket.

I have also machined the threaded section of the regulator housing back 5mm and relieved the body to give me some comfort factor clearance wise to the TPS. The Centauro throttle cable arrived and am glad to say it fitted perfectly.

Ciao

[docc]

So, this step has always destroyed my ability to perform the kind of amazing project this is. At some point, the progression has to be completely disassembled and refitted.

That, IMHO, is one of the hallmarks of true Professionalism.

One that will always reveal me as a mere hobbiest.

Welldone,   LuckyPhil.

(And once again, thanks for the generous sharing of the methods, process, and progress . . . )