V11 Daytona project

[Chuck]

That's a strange one.. good catch.

[Lucky Phil]

That's a strange one.. good catch.

Yes Chuck, thinking about it I might just turn up a new restrictor as not only is it too long but its also a loose fit in the bearing carrier where its a neat fit in the original. There would be a significant amount of oil bypassing the restrictor in the new set up.

Notice as well the new bearing carrier has a boss for the oil hole to the seal area at 1 o'clock but the original only has a hole with no boss.Need to think about that one, maybe better oil supply to the seal area? Dont know. 

 

 

Ciao

[Scud]

Great work Phil. The prep and paint work is exemplary. The crinkle finish transmission will be relatively easy after that - it's only 4 pieces. I assume you will take the same paint through to the final drive as well?

 

I may have missed something, but what bike is this going in? Your Greenie? or do you have another frame for this project?

[Lucky Phil]

Great work Phil. The prep and paint work is exemplary. The crinkle finish transmission will be relatively easy after that - it's only 4 pieces. I assume you will take the same paint through to the final drive as well?

 

I may have missed something, but what bike is this going in? Your Greenie? or do you have another frame for this project?

Thanks Scud, I went the whole 9 yards on the paint prep wise. Stripped the cases soda blasted most then used mag wheel cleaner on the parts for 10 min and hosed it off and painted within 2 days. Then I cured it all in the oven. If it doesnt stick now it never will. I have stripped about 90% of the crinkle finish gearbox, what a nightmare that stuff is. In some places the paint is over 1mm thick. I'll strip it apart as you did and do the painting properly.

 

Ciao  

[Lucky Phil]

Machined up a new rear main bearing carrier oil feed restrictor today. Same overall length just a longer shoulder and slightly larger OD to position it in the carrier and fit the drilling better.

 

 

 

 

Ciao

[Chuck]

[swooshdave]

Is there some reason they would want the restrictor to stick down? Are there two bearings that go in the bearing carrier?

[Lucky Phil]

Is there some reason they would want the restrictor to stick down? Are there two bearings that go in the bearing carrier?

No, this new bearing and carrier just have a slightly larger drilling for the restrictor and a deeper shoulder for it to sit on. Not sure why. Its also a sand cast carrier as well and the original is diecast. I think it came from HMB Guzzi in Germany and may be an aftermarket piece. Its nicely made and I have no issues using it it just differs in details. The original restrictor would have contacted the crank journal on the new one.

The carrier is a separate part with a single piece double track bearing pressed into it by the looks of things. Same for both old and new.

 

Ciao 

[nobleswood]

For the machining illiterate, ie me, what are the pros & cons between the sand cast or the die cast ?

[Lucky Phil]

For the machining illiterate, ie me, what are the pros & cons between the sand cast or the die cast ?

Well these days sand cast is more suited to small production runs as there is no investment in expensive tooling just the cheaper patterns. It also enables you implement modifications to the casting quickly and cheaply buy modding the pattern.

Some claim the materials are stronger but the shapes need to be a little less complex to get the material to flow into the mold compared to pressure die cast.

Its a good question. My Ducati 1198s uses pressure diecast crankcases but the R version (and therefore the WSB bikes at the time) used heavier and stronger sand cast cases. So they were Homologated with the sand cast cases. 

I remember the Ducati sand cast bevel cases from the 70's and most had Araldite in them somewhere to fill porosity and voids. But then again the pressure diecast ones on the 80's and 90's eight valvers also suffered from porosity. 

Chuck may be able to chime in with more detailed info.

 

Ciao

[Chuck]

 

Chuck may be able to chime in with more detailed info.

Not really, that covers it well. I've made pressure die cast molds, but only seen sand casting being done. If you haven't *done* something, you don't know jack..

[Lucky Phil]

Well after doing the priority task (installing 2 600 liter water tanks for the wifes gardening) I managed to sneak an hour or so on the Daytona engine. I cleaned out the crank and oil galleries and fitted the new plug. Here's a tip...when you trial fit the plug and tighten it up re check the interior of the crank pin again for aluminium particles off the plug. The last thread or so of the plug can get shaved by the end threads in the crank and the shavings end up inside the pin bore. Happened in this case to me. Re cleaned the bore of the pin and loctited the plug in place. I'll give it a couple of punch marks tomorrow when the loctite has cured.

I also roughed up the rear cam bearing blank and applied some hi temp JB weld as has been suggested by some. Belts and braces I guess.

 

 

 

Hmm.....doesn't look quite this horrid in the flesh thank goodness. 

 

 

Ciao

[pete roper]

Nobody's going to be looking in there again in your lifetime! WGAF what it looks like as long as the oil stays on the right side of the gorilla snot?!

[swooshdave]

Would you mine posting pictures of the rear main bearing carrier once it has the bearings installed just for my own curiosity? Thanks!

[Lucky Phil]

Managed a little more progress today. Crank installed. One thing I noticed while checking yesterday and returned to today was the rear main bearing mounting bolt protrusion. They all looked to be bottoming a little too early for mine so I measured and did a calculation. So the main bearing carrier flange together with the gasket and the wave washer measure at 8.65 mm thickness give or take and the bolt under head face to flange with the bolt bottomed out in the threads measured 8.37 mm. That's about 0.3mm or 0.012" or 1/4 turn from thread bound. Not so great. I managed to extend the tapped threads another 1.5 mm or so and get the bolt threaded depth somewhere back to comfortable.

Because both the main bearing carriers were a snug fit I decided to heat the cases in the oven to 100 deg C and the front and rear both just dropped in with a few studs fitted for alignment. Better than trying to crank them down with studs and nuts I think.

   

 

 

Better

 

 

 

 

First round of the 2019 WSB at Phillip Island this weekend so I'll get back to this next week.

 

Ciao