V11 Daytona project

[Lucky Phil]

Plugging away at this. Oil pump is in and front cover on. I've made up a cam belt tensioning tool which looks a bit ordinary but works ok. Chuck sent me a file of its dimensions but I couldnt open it because I didnt have the software but when you see an image of one its so simple and you cant get it wrong anyway. Thanks anyway Chuck, just avert your eyes as its ahem....rustic.

Turns out it gives you about what I thought the belt tension would be so I'll set it by feel like I do a Ducati belt. I also modified the pulley flanges so you can change the belts with the pulleys still fitted. Basically just the cam timing to do.

 

The "tool"

Pulley mod so you can replace the belts. Standard you struggle to get the belts out as they fowl on the casing. The r/h belt pulley inner flange had to be done also and line up with this one.

Cam timing to go.

[Chuck]

Quote

Chuck sent me a file of its dimensions but I couldnt open it because I didnt have the software

<scratching head> It was a standard .dxf (Autocad drawing exchange) file.. You'd think any decent cad file would open it. Oh, well, glad you got it done. Now for the fun part, degreeing the cams. I was lucky, mine were ok. Some were off from the factory. Surprise surprise..

[pete roper]

I had one Daytona RS that had one 'A' kit cam and one 'C' kit cam. That had me buggered.

[Lucky Phil]

On 5/25/2019 at 9:44 AM, Chuck said:

<scratching head> It was a standard .dxf (Autocad drawing exchange) file.. You'd think any decent cad file would open it. Oh, well, glad you got it done. Now for the fun part, degreeing the cams. I was lucky, mine were ok. Some were off from the factory. Surprise surprise..

I dont have a CAD file Chuck, but I'm a little IT challenged. Guzzi diag is going to be interesting for me although I can work the program for the 1198's Microteck ecu so we'll see. 

Ciao

[Lucky Phil]

56 minutes ago, pete roper said:

I had one Daytona RS that had one 'A' kit cam and one 'C' kit cam. That had me buggered.

Yes that would be confusing, how did it run? I would like to get the lift measurements for the C kit cam but no one seems to have the lift figures. Guzziology has the timing specs but not the lift. If you ever come across one I can borrow Pete I might be interested in using my spare cams to see if I can get some C kit ones ground off them.

Ciao  

[nobleswood]

Phil,

here you go this should open it up ;

https://viewer.autodesk.com/

thanks for the detailed post, for me it's an education 

[Lucky Phil]

12 hours ago, nobleswood said:

Phil,

here you go this should open it up ;

https://viewer.autodesk.com/

thanks for the detailed post, for me it's an education 

Thanks man I see how I go!

 

Ciao

[Lucky Phil]

So here we are and I'm calling this finished. Did the final job today in making a camshaft pulley holding tool so I could torque up the cam retaining nuts.

I finished off the cam timing a few days ago which on this engine is really easy. Briefly you find TDC on the L/H cylinder ( with the full stop method in this case) and rotate the engine in its DOR until the its 49.5 deg BBDC and then with the rockers removed from the engine and a dial indicator on the exhaust lifter you turn the cam anticlockwise from the base circle until you get .040 (1mm) of lift. All this is done with the belts and pulleys fitted and the cam micrometer adjusting drives removed. You then just move the cam drive adjuster around until the splines on the camshaft and pulley line up and install. Turn the engine 270 deg to TDC on the R/H cylinder fit another TDC indicator and re set the degree wheel and repeat. 

Home made TDC stop tool

Home made cam pulley holding tool.

Cam pulley and micrometric adjusting drive

Here's how I had the dial indicator set up. Just a piece of steel ( in this case a Ducati bevel drive exhaust nut tool) bolted to the rocker cover flange and a magnetic stand with dial indicator operating directly onto the exhaust lifter. I forgot to take a photo during the timing task but this is the setup with the rocker installed. Both rockers are removed during the cam timing operation.

Finished engine

And dressed.

Ciao

[pete roper]

It is indeed a work o'fart! The vernierable system for the cam timing is wonderful, but should of been completely unnecessary even in the seventies. That isn't to say it wasn't in its own way admirable, but few people, then and now, would translate that admiration into dollars in terms of servicing.

No, you don't have to worry about that in 'Routine' maintenance, (And yes. Belt replacement is routine!) but the fact remains that most people at the time, and even more so now, would and do view this sort of thing as *Exotic*. And let's face it, they are right!

I have a huge admiration for Todero's swan song. But it was, and remains, a 1950's racing engine thrown out as a production vehicle. From an economic standpoint it was always marginal at best. With the advent of the first Suzuki GSXR 750 it became a quaint anachronism that could never hope to garner interest from people outside a small coterie of nutters like Phil, Paul and myself, although nowadays I prefer to observe from afar!

 

Pete

[docc]

2 hours ago, pete roper said:

" . . . a quaint anachronism that could never hope to garner interest from people outside a small coterie of nutters . . . "

Perhaps a proper slogan for our existence (and not just the motors or bikes, themselves)!  We nutters must stick together . . .

[Chuck]

Quote

small coterie of nutters

Add me to the small coterie.. After the Mighty Scura, my Centauro was my second favorite motorcycle of all time.

[Kevin_T]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 7:40 PM, pete roper said:

I had one Daytona RS that had one 'A' kit cam and one 'C' kit cam. That had me buggered.

Ok so I'll bite  PLEASE tell that wasn't a factory job!! I wrote that with a little smirk on my face but after careful contemplation I scared of what the answer might be.

(Nutter) Quietly raises hand,  looks at ground while gently kicking dirt in a circle.

Since your on the subject of Moto Guzzi innovations  and your motor is done for the most part let me ask a question. I just bought a 2002 v11 Lemans about a week ago never really looked that closely before at the frame. The Lemans has a strut from the frame to the engine case just under the tranny does stabilize the engine, increase handling? Just what are the benefits? Do I want to weld a lug on to the engine case for my v11 project. Is it worth change the exhaust system for?

[docc]

Kevin_T, what year/model is your project V11? Is it an early "RedFrame?"

If so, here is a good thread to read and probably a better place to pose that (good) question:

Red (short) Frame vs. Black (long) Frame   (in "24/7 V11")

[pete roper]

7 hours ago, Kevin_T said:

Ok so I'll bite  PLEASE tell that wasn't a factory job!! I wrote that with a little smirk on my face but after careful contemplation I scared of what the answer might be.

(Nutter) Quietly raises hand,  looks at ground while gently kicking dirt in a circle.

Since your on the subject of Moto Guzzi innovations  and your motor is done for the most part let me ask a question. I just bought a 2002 v11 Lemans about a week ago never really looked that closely before at the frame. The Lemans has a strut from the frame to the engine case just under the tranny does stabilize the engine, increase handling? Just what are the benefits? Do I want to weld a lug on to the engine case for my v11 project. Is it worth change the exhaust system for?

It was a factory job.

[Lucky Phil]

So I moved onto the side flow injector throttle bodies. I wanted to remove the injectors and run them in the ultrasonic cleaner as I had no idea of their history and they had been sitting around for years. I envisaged a painful time of it and I was correct. In their infinite wisdom the 2 4mm screws holding in the injector retaining plates are installed with red loctite!!!!!!

What the hell. Naturally the first one sheared off flush with the TB and the rest came out with difficulty. I managed to get the sheared one out eventually but I was lucky for sure. Snap on easy out kit and a scary amount of heat and it was out without damaging anything. The injectors were also difficult to removed which I expected as the o rings dont like to release after years in place and the injectors are hard to get a grab on without damaging them. I devised a process and eventually got them out without damage.

Next on the list is to strip down my spare gearbox so I can paint strip and paint the cases.

  

Everyone needs one of these in the workshop. Cheap as chips and work remarkably well. I also have a 20 liter commercial one for the big stuff like cylinder heads etc.

Next job. Break down strip and paint the cases to match the engine.

 

Ciao