MGS01 , No Spray & No Spark

[GuzziMoto]

If it doesn't turn over fast enough to fire the plugs and injectors unless you lighten the load by pulling the plugs it sounds like either the battery is weak or the starter is weak. I would try the battery first, as it is easier to rule out. Just use a second battery to help try to start it. That should allow it to spin faster. If that works, you probably need to replace you battery.

But to me, it sounds like you are saying that it fires the spark plugs and injectors if you try to start it with the plugs pulled, but with the plugs installed it can't spin the motor fast enough to trigger the spark plugs and injectors. That really can only be the battery and / or the starter in my opinion.

[pete roper]

No spark or injector pulse screams phase sensor.

[Chuck]

No spark or injector pulse screams phase sensor.

Yeah, but he says he put a new one on it.

[GuzziMoto]

He also says that if he pulls the plugs it does fire the spark plugs and injectors.

[Lucky Phil]

If it doesn't turn over fast enough to fire the plugs and injectors unless you lighten the load by pulling the plugs it sounds like either the battery is weak or the starter is weak. I would try the battery first, as it is easier to rule out. Just use a second battery to help try to start it. That should allow it to spin faster. If that works, you probably need to replace you battery.

But to me, it sounds like you are saying that it fires the spark plugs and injectors if you try to start it with the plugs pulled, but with the plugs installed it can't spin the motor fast enough to trigger the spark plugs and injectors. That really can only be the battery and / or the starter in my opinion.

He says he replaced the battery in his initial post? ( "I was tested about"... with battery at the top of the list). 

 

Ciao

[docc]

New AGM batteries, "off the shelf", are well known to be delivered at 50% State of Charge.  So, this could still be weak battery (perhaps combined with a series of resistant electrical connections).

 

Since I have beat this Battery Conditioning thing enough,  no one will be surprised:

 

madbunny:

 

What is the battery type and manufacturer? The replacement is new and unused battery?

 

Connect a quality voltmeter to the battery. Report the following voltages:

 

1) Voltage after the battery has been static 6 hours.

 

2) Run switch ON ( should be virtually no change as there are no lights).

 

3) Cranking the starter/ plugs out.

 

4) Cranking the starter/ plugs in.

[docc]

madbunny, I am also looking at the #46 "Injection Utilities Relay." This relay is a High Current demand relay supplying the Coils, Injectors,

and the Fuel Pump.

 

Be certain this relay is of High Current specification:

 

High-Current OMRON G8HE-1C7T-R-DC12

 

USA source:

 

Mouser Electronics, USA

[Lucky Phil]

Here's a basic question......what was the very last thing you did to the bike before it wouldnt start? You would be surprised at the answers you get at times......" nothing really, gave it a wash thats all!!! Water, electrical connections? you know what I mean. 

Think about the very last thing.

 

Ciao

[Kevin_T]

I've seen ignition systems not fire just because they had less then 11 volts. It fires when there is no resistence but as soon you put a load on the battery the voltage drops just enough. Is the battery the original? Makes it what 14 years old. The best advice I can give you is to go to www.Centauro-owners.com I believe they have a couple members that have the same bike as yours. When you were cranking over the engine without the spark plugs in it make sure you ground them. It might be possible to damage something in the ignition system. The bike is Art its History don't do anything rash.

[swooshdave]

I've seen ignition systems not fire just because they had less then 11 volts. It fires when there is no resistence but as soon you put a load on the battery the voltage drops just enough. Is the battery the original? Makes it what 14 years old. The best advice I can give you is to go to www.Centauro-owners.com I believe they have a couple members that have the same bike as yours. When you were cranking over the engine without the spark plugs in it make sure you ground them. It might be possible to damage something in the ignition system. The bike is Art its History don't do anything rash.

 

He listed the battery as new. We assume it's been tested and fully charged.

[madbunny]

thanks reply everyone!

I try brand new motobatt AGM battery &

starter motor run seperate to 80A car battery.

also change 46 ECU relay. (original -> omron 30A)

unfortunely, It's still the same.

 

But when sparkplug plugged in,
The negative signal from the ECU doesn't work.

 

So I suspecting the ECU,

I made a replica(900ss 15M into MGS01 data) and tested it.

There is no difference, but I want to put other data into the ECU and try again.

 

I can only put 64 kb of factory data.

How can I transmit the vast amount of information about tunerpro?

And I don't know where to get the tunerpro data from MGS01.

anyone happen to know?

[Lucky Phil]

I didnt actually see the video in the original post so I checked it out. How about you put it all together and try bump starting it. Its a pain bumping a big Vtwin but i'd be interested to see what happens with the starter out of the equation. Even to see if it tries to fire up. IE you get an ignition event. I suspect the starter itself or the starter relay pulling the voltage down even with the other battery.

 

Ciao  

[swooshdave]

Seems like it could be too many other things to try pushing that big motha around.

[Lucky Phil]

Seems like it could be too many other things to try pushing that big motha around.

I've just got this feeling that something basic but unusual is being missed and we've jumped to the complex stuff to soon. Try the bump just for the sake of elimination.

 

Ciao 

[MartyNZ]

No spark or injector pulse screams phase sensor.

When Pete says something, it pays to listen. He has worked on Moto Guzzis before.

 

Looking at your first post, it seems like pic 1 oscilloscope trace shows a lower sensor voltage and lower speed than pic 2.

The SENS813 is an inductive pickup, which would put out lower voltage pulses if the gap to the phonic wheel was large.

I think you could try reducing the SEN813 sensor gap to the minimum, and temporarily leave the o-ring seal out, just to check.

 

As I see it, the sequence of events in the ECU are:

1. ECU Power on, self test, sensor check, and pump prime.

2. The ECU then waits until SEN813 pulses reach a "run" threshold.

3. The ECU will then turn on coils and injectors as instructed by the BIN file program.

If the SEN813 sensor is faulty, or if the gap is too large, the ECU will not power the coils and injectors.

 

As Chuck mentioned, electrical connectors can cause problems, and it is a good idea to remove and clean the connector to the ECU.

 

What does your instrument panel RPM display show during cranking when it is sparking and not sparking?

 

Be aware too that your manual says "If in the wrong position, the bank angle sensor may lead to sudden engine stalling".

You mentioned this at the start, but you could try disconnecting it.