RAM clutch?

[Paradiso]

What Docc has just posted is correct as far as I know. I ordered a 6 speed RAM for my Tenni, but was sent a 5 speed one. At the time I didn't realise it could be made to work and sent it back. In hindsight, I could have used my existing clutch hub and swapped the clutch pushrod cup over from the original single plate clutch. I sourced the parts for a 2 plate clutch and a new clutch hub.

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[sp838]

Thanks, that's reassuring... Do you still happen to have your old clutch parts kicking around? If so could you measure the height of the stack for me?

[Paradiso]

I haven't got access to them at the moment. Try to fit it and see. That's the best test.

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[footgoose]

Give me a chance to get to the parts and I'll report back. The hub you get with the 5 spd kit is not relevant.

[footgoose]

so far I have this... I have a stock single plate and a stock dual plate. the stacked height for both is 55mm. bear in mind they are not bolted tight together, just stacked without springs.

I'm curious why, in the photo where you tried out the new 6spd hub, the splines sit flush with the clutch splines, then in subsequent photos (where you were measuring), both hubs drop in further? seems odd

Also remember, the hub is attached to the trans and does not "bottom out" into the clutch assembly.

 

hope this helps

[sp838]

Thank you! Yes this does help a lot. The stack height thing seems like a critical dimension.

In the earlier photos, the hubs are lined up with the top of the splines because they sort of bind up there, it's a cery precise fit, but if you push a little they go in further and bottom out on the friction plate. I imagine that when assembled they won't actually go in that far, so my most recent photos were the extreme case. There is a couple if not a few mm more of protrusion for the hub.

Thank you so much for confirming stack height! Now the next thing to freaknout about will be the pushrod haha

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, sp838 said:

Thank you! Yes this does help a lot. The stack height thing seems like a critical dimension.

In the earlier photos, the hubs are lined up with the top of the splines because they sort of bind up there, it's a cery precise fit, but if you push a little they go in further and bottom out on the friction plate. I imagine that when assembled they won't actually go in that far, so my most recent photos were the extreme case. There is a couple if not a few mm more of protrusion for the hub.

Thank you so much for confirming stack height! Now the next thing to freaknout about will be the pushrod haha

looks like you're overthinking this a a little.

Ciao

[Kevin_T]

I have a six speed box and a five speed box plus the Ram clutch conversion in front of me so I might be able to help.

If I were you I would take that input hub and a little valve lapping compound and remove any binding that you referred to. Then I would send it off to Swain's coatings to have it poly coated. I just don't think your going to be seeing to many more of those. The splines are subject to wear if you don't grease them and its just not a five minute job so could get neglected. In the past I would just replace the input hub when the clutch started to drag as my time was more valuable.

Like everyone said it should fit right up. The bell housing have different shapes between the 5 and the 6 speeders with the bearing for the mainshaft on the 5 speeder being recessed, but the outer diameter has the same depth. You might want to use some clay at potential contact points and dry fit if you have concerns, but the push rod is probably your only problem that I see.

[sp838]

1 hour ago, Kevin_T said:

take that input hub and a little valve lapping compound and remove any binding that you referred to. Then I would send it off to Swain's coatings to have it poly coated

Excellent suggestions, will do it. This hub is indeed truly unobtanium now, so that would be well worth it. 

 

12 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

you're overthinking this a a little

lol, thanks LP. Yes, I probably am. I would much rather over think it and be well prepared to do the job right the first and only time, or not do it at all, rather than under thinking it and taking everything apart without knowing if it will work, risking at the very least to waste a lot of time and money, at worst breaking something along the way all for naught.  

[sp838]

1 hour ago, Kevin_T said:

the push rod is probably your only problem that I see.

Any other problems beside the diameter of the pushing end where it fits into the cup? Length issues +/-? I was planning on just turning the end of it down to fit. The ID of the cup that came with my kit is approx. 6.4mm, was going to turn my rod end down to 6mm. 

[docc]

14 minutes ago, sp838 said:

Any other problems beside the diameter of the pushing end where it fits into the cup? Length issues +/-? I was planning on just turning the end of it down to fit. The ID of the cup that came with my kit is approx. 6.4mm, was going to turn my rod end down to 6mm. 

craigsinclair addressed this in Nov 2016 in this post. See if it helps:

"Shifting Woes"

[sp838]

58 minutes ago, docc said:

craigsinclair addressed this

Fingers crossed, looks like it should be smooth sailing 🤞🤞

Considering making my own pushrod from scratch using 7068 

[MartyNZ]

8 hours ago, sp838 said:

Considering making my own pushrod from scratch using 7068 

You might want to think carefully before using any 7000 series alum alloy instead of steel. 7068 is lighter, and easier to machine than steel, but like other 7000 series, it suffers from corrosion and "stress corrosion cracking". That pushrod is in compression and resists buckling, so 7068's great tensile strength is no use to you there. Exposed areas would need anodising and paint but also need a smooth surface for the oil seal. It would be a good choice if you had light clutch springs, and could easily inspect it every few years. 

If you really wanted to make your own, perhaps hollow 4130 steel or titanium tube with steel tips at each end would be better?  

[swooshdave]

I know very little about metallurgy but there is no way I’d use aluminum for a clutch pushrod. I know they are used for engine pushrods but those are larger diameter tubes and capped. The weight difference between steel an aluminum is about the same as the order of fries you had for lunch.

[mznyc]

Hi sp838,Just seeing this as I haven't been around for a while,PM me as I am still in NY and have done this conversion,albeit the opposite way,S-D plates,and have the proper Guzzi tools for the clutch assembly...

Michael