Can’t shift past 3rd gear v11

[ready180a]

37 minutes ago, GuzziMoto said:

Before you blame the insides of the transmission I would make sure the external linkage isn't binding on anything. The distance the lever moves to change gears is not the same between all the gears, it seems to have to move farther as you go to higher gears. This can cause an issue with the linkage binding that was not there when shifting between the lower gears.

KISS. Check the simple stuff first.

no blame has been had hear , just trying to find a solution unfortunately it’s not the linkage I can take it off and operate  it by hand and still get the same results . 

 

Regards Tony 

[ready180a]

On 4/24/2019 at 6:02 AM, ready180a said:

Thank you for taking the time to reply , as far as I know the preselector wasn’t touched during the rebuild Would it be likely you have to adjust it to suit the new drive dogs ? 

Tony 

Hi mate , I have removed the pre selector again and believed to have adjusted it so it’s now correct and seams to be working ok but not when fitted back to the bike .

From your experience do you think it would be of benefit to try it out on the open road ? . 

Regards Tony  

[Steve S]

23 hours ago, ready180a said:

 That sounds like a good thing to at least try ? Would you be able to elaborate on what I would need to modify? 

 regards Tony 

Might be easier to call me Tony, 07976 849955

[ready180a]

Thanks for all he reply’s and advice guys , 

unfortunately I have  not been able to  fix the problem and can not shift past 3rd gear the leaver just goes solid like it’s hitting something in side the box . 

Maybe it’s worth just trying it out on the open road ? 

Any advice ? 

 

Kind regards Tony 

[swooshdave]

2 hours ago, ready180a said:

Thanks for all he reply’s and advice guys , 

unfortunately I have  not been able to  fix the problem and can not shift past 3rd gear the leaver just goes solid like it’s hitting something in side the box . 

Maybe it’s worth just trying it out on the open road ? 

Any advice ? 

 

Kind regards Tony 

Why do you think it would be better on the open road? Just rolling it will have the same effect.

Was the gearbox disassembled at some point?

[ready180a]

Only due to some one else on the forum having a similar problem and when they when they went for a ride it was working ok . ( I’m clutching on straws hear) 

yes the gear box had the recall done to it a couple of months ago and I am just re assembling it . 

I cant see anything wrong inside though . 

Regards Tony 

[ready180a]

Hi guys I have came to the bottom of the problem the gear box drive dogs (the ones replaced in the recall)  are around 2mm to thick causing it to jam against the gear and not allow the preselector past the dowel on the selector fork . 

So I have a problem where I can put the old ones back and have a ticking time bom  or try and modify the preselector track to slow it to pass by the selector fork . 

Leading me to ask wether any one would possibly have a set of preselector gears I could by from them ? 

Kindest regards Tony

[swooshdave]

If I were to guess the recall wasn't done correctly.

[czakky]

What a bummer. Aren’t there a couple “part out” bikes in the classifieds right now?

[Lucky Phil]

On 4/26/2019 at 6:07 AM, ready180a said:

Hi guys I have came to the bottom of the problem the gear box drive dogs (the ones replaced in the recall)  are around 2mm to thick causing it to jam against the gear and not allow the preselector past the dowel on the selector fork . 

So I have a problem where I can put the old ones back and have a ticking time bom  or try and modify the preselector track to slow it to pass by the selector fork . 

Leading me to ask wether any one would possibly have a set of preselector gears I could by from them ? 

Kindest regards Tony

You need to get to the core of the issue which is why the drive dog or "hose" as the manual calls it appears to be too thick. Trying to grind the selector tracks to suit will not only be near on impossible but isnt dealing with the real reason for the problem.

I doubt that an extra 2mm on the width of the drive sleeve or "hose" would be an issue anyway as that 2mm extra overall is 1mm each direction of movement and most transmissions have enough play in them that they when correctly adjusted they dont actually fully engage the dogs anyway but rely on the slight undercut to pull the dogs into full engagement. So its not unusual for the drive sleeve or the actual gear itself with its integral dogs to be a couple of mm short of total engagement when shifted on the bench. On a Ducati box you shim the shafts to try and even out this but its a compromise and as I mentioned when the clutch is released the slight undercut on each dog finishes the job of pulling the dogs into full engagement.

The additional 2mm of width if in fact that's the case could well be where the additional strength of the drive sleeve is compared to the original. 

I'd be looking for another reason myself. I could measure the drive sleeve width for you so you can compare it with yours. How are you measuring the width? I dont think you can get a set of calipers in there or a mike.

 

Ciao

[docc]

I ran across this post on the recall from 2004 with a helpful image:

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1916-v11-recall/&do=findComment&comment=17900

[ready180a]

On 4/27/2019 at 12:47 AM, Lucky Phil said:

You need to get to the core of the issue which is why the drive dog or "hose" as the manual calls it appears to be too thick. Trying to grind the selector tracks to suit will not only be near on impossible but isnt dealing with the real reason for the problem.

I doubt that an extra 2mm on the width of the drive sleeve or "hose" would be an issue anyway as that 2mm extra overall is 1mm each direction of movement and most transmissions have enough play in them that they when correctly adjusted they dont actually fully engage the dogs anyway but rely on the slight undercut to pull the dogs into full engagement. So its not unusual for the drive sleeve or the actual gear itself with its integral dogs to be a couple of mm short of total engagement when shifted on the bench. On a Ducati box you shim the shafts to try and even out this but its a compromise and as I mentioned when the clutch is released the slight undercut on each dog finishes the job of pulling the dogs into full engagement.

The additional 2mm of width if in fact that's the case could well be where the additional strength of the drive sleeve is compared to the original. 

I'd be looking for another reason myself. I could measure the drive sleeve width for you so you can compare it with yours. How are you measuring the width? I dont think you can get a set of calipers in there or a mike.

 

Ciao

Hi thank you  for taking the time to reply , to modify the track would be no problem for my self , you wouldn’t grind it I would hard mettle machine it . (I’m a tool maker so am lucky to have the skills and tool at my finger tips ) 

That aside after a closer look it wouldn’t work any way , as due to the extra thickness of the dogs it seams to have reduced  the clearance when in neutral to around .5 mm aside between the gears and dog . 

regarding measuring I would class it a ruff measurement but well with in .2mm using a set of dividers due to the access issue .

2.6 mm thicker overall . 

if you select 3rd and then remove the preselector plate the drive dog is up tight to 3rd gear and will not pass past the peak of the selector track meaning the dog is just to wide . . ? 

With the clearance issue , selector issue and thickness issue it all points to the drive dog  being to thick. 

I really don’t want to take the box back out .

it would be fantastic if you could measure yours (if it’s had the recall or is newer than 2003) . As it would give me something to compare to . 

Kindest regards Tony 

 

 

[Lucky Phil]

Here's an image of my gearbox sleeve fully engaged in 3rd gear. The minor width of the sleeve is 10.4 mm and the major across the dog faces is 20.00 mm.

From the parts manual all the part numbers for all versions from 99-2007 are the same the 3,4,5,6 sleeves (2 off) are 04214900 and the 1,2 (2 off) are 04213900. The MGS-01 are both different.

Ciao

[ready180a]

7 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Here's an image of my gearbox sleeve fully engaged in 3rd gear. The minor width of the sleeve is 10.4 mm and the major across the dog faces is 20.00 mm.

From the parts manual all the part numbers for all versions from 99-2007 are the same the 3,4,5,6 sleeves (2 off) are 04214900 and the 1,2 (2 off) are 04213900. The MGS-01 are both different.

Ciao

Thanks for that, 

I have measured the original ones that came out and they tally up with what yours  are . 

I will have another check tonight in side the gear box and post back . 

Regards Tony 

[Tinus89]

On 4/24/2019 at 3:46 PM, GuzziMoto said:

Before you blame the insides of the transmission I would make sure the external linkage isn't binding on anything. The distance the lever moves to change gears is not the same between all the gears, it seems to have to move farther as you go to higher gears. This can cause an issue with the linkage binding that was not there when shifting between the lower gears.

KISS. Check the simple stuff first.

I've had the same issue going up from 3rd gear I thought, but I misassembled my shifter linkage and it was hitting on the starter just barely. The shifter travel is different in different gears I would say...