Guzzi goes to the Manx-

[Locky]

Hello folks-I have recently repurchased an 2002 V11 Le Mans I first owned 7 years ago, having taken it as a tradein - I flogged it to a pal in London in 2012 when I was lined up for a hip operation and couldn't straddle the beast in comfort. Bought it back happily as I always loved the thing, however in the years since my ownership it sadly languished in a front garden under cover for far too long and is now quite rusty and scruffy - this I can live with and work on over time but worst of all it has a hit and miss approach to starting. Have fiddled with it, as you do, took starter off and got new brushes fitted, still goes click click click then maybe whirr vroom. Local mechanic sez its the solenoid not making proper contact - what might other potential causes be? I have been around Italian bikes for years and know electrics can be a weak point, Im 65 now and don't fancy pushing the beast too far if it decides not to restart one fine day. All help appreciated-when I master the technology I will post a pic or two, though its a fairly standard bike and scruffy unlike some of the gems I see on this forum so I wont be shouting about its coolness-it just so happens I like the way it does its business on Irish country roads with a nice grunty motor.

[docc]

2 hours ago, Locky said:

Hello folks-I have recently repurchased an 2002 V11 Le Mans I first owned 7 years ago, having taken it as a tradein - I flogged it to a pal in London in 2012 when I was lined up for a hip operation and couldn't straddle the beast in comfort. Bought it back happily as I always loved the thing, however in the years since my ownership it sadly languished in a front garden under cover for far too long and is now quite rusty and scruffy - this I can live with and work on over time but worst of all it has a hit and miss approach to starting. Have fiddled with it, as you do, took starter off and got new brushes fitted, still goes click click click then maybe whirr vroom. Local mechanic sez its the solenoid not making proper contact - what might other potential causes be? I have been around Italian bikes for years and know electrics can be a weak point, Im 65 now and don't fancy pushing the beast too far if it decides not to restart one fine day. All help appreciated-when I master the technology I will post a pic or two, though its a fairly standard bike and scruffy unlike some of the gems I see on this forum so I wont be shouting about its coolness-it just so happens I like the way it does its business on Irish country roads with a nice grunty motor.

First things first: upgrade to Best High Current Relays and condition the AGM battery properly. See pinned threads in "How to . . ."

Then, there will be more . . .

[Kiwi_Roy]

6 hours ago, Locky said:

Hello folks-I have recently repurchased an 2002 V11 Le Mans I first owned 7 years ago, having taken it as a tradein - I flogged it to a pal in London in 2012 when I was lined up for a hip operation and couldn't straddle the beast in comfort. Bought it back happily as I always loved the thing, however in the years since my ownership it sadly languished in a front garden under cover for far too long and is now quite rusty and scruffy - this I can live with and work on over time but worst of all it has a hit and miss approach to starting. Have fiddled with it, as you do, took starter off and got new brushes fitted, still goes click click click then maybe whirr vroom. Local mechanic sez its the solenoid not making proper contact - what might other potential causes be? I have been around Italian bikes for years and know electrics can be a weak point, Im 65 now and don't fancy pushing the beast too far if it decides not to restart one fine day. All help appreciated-when I master the technology I will post a pic or two, though its a fairly standard bike and scruffy unlike some of the gems I see on this forum so I wont be shouting about its coolness-it just so happens I like the way it does its business on Irish country roads with a nice grunty motor.

Make sure the Start relay terminal 30 is always alive, the cause of starting failure is usually because the factory wired the relay through the ignition switch.

The factory don't show the coil that draws 40+ Amps. The wiring is not capable of supplying this current.

[Locky]

Hi Guys

Just back from family visit so only seeing your replies now-thanks a lot for speedy response - the battery is a new Yuasa 14ah which a Guzzi shop told me would do the business and when the solenoid/starter gets a clean contact it happily cranks over and starts - haven't flushed out the tank yet and the petrol is a few years old although I know that s a different set of issues apart from the dodgy contact with the starter. I also know its a sin to expect a motor to run happily on mouldy old unleaded.

The relays I will have to chase up- I got a workshop manual with the bike but wasn't too impressed with the wiring diagram, maybe because Ive always been a bit allergic to Italian wiring and wouldn't class myself as a sparks, more a fiddler. 

Amateur fiddlers keep professional mechanics in work so we shouldn't be abused too much - that's my logic.

I might surrender and bring the beast to a good mechanic I know in Dublin who specialises in Italian stuff from the past, my work keeps me on the road for long days and hours in the Summer so don't get the chance to spend quality time in the shed fettling- I know its cheating but starting into a fiddly issue when you`re knackered tired isn't the best or most productive approach. Im due to take the bike to the Isle of Man for the Classic TT in a few weeks time and would hate to have it sit down on me while there, if only because the company I keep will give me a merciless ribbing over Italian stuff - Im sure you know the routine,

Thanks again for the help, you will hear more about it.

[Kiwi_Roy]

On 8/9/2019 at 12:22 PM, Locky said:

Hello folks-I have recently repurchased an 2002 V11 Le Mans I first owned 7 years ago, having taken it as a tradein - I flogged it to a pal in London in 2012 when I was lined up for a hip operation and couldn't straddle the beast in comfort. Bought it back happily as I always loved the thing, however in the years since my ownership it sadly languished in a front garden under cover for far too long and is now quite rusty and scruffy - this I can live with and work on over time but worst of all it has a hit and miss approach to starting. Have fiddled with it, as you do, took starter off and got new brushes fitted, still goes click click click then maybe whirr vroom. Local mechanic sez its the solenoid not making proper contact - what might other potential causes be? I have been around Italian bikes for years and know electrics can be a weak point, Im 65 now and don't fancy pushing the beast too far if it decides not to restart one fine day. All help appreciated-when I master the technology I will post a pic or two, though its a fairly standard bike and scruffy unlike some of the gems I see on this forum so I wont be shouting about its coolness-it just so happens I like the way it does its business on Irish country roads with a nice grunty motor.

Locky,

           Look at the difference between the two diagrams around the start relay terminal 30, this one has 30 supplied directly from the battery via fuse 5

But this later bike has the start relay fed via the wimpy wires to the ignition switch and back

Later is better right?

Not so in this case, The former wiring has no trouble feeding 50 Amps to the starter solenoid, the Latter (weak) diagram would be lucky to get 30 on a good day, more likely 25 or Click Click AKA Startus Interruptus.. The factory screwed up, they never have to deal with a 10 year old bike with a failing ignition switch.

How do you know which version you have?

Pull the start relay out and measure with a Voltmeter or test light the 30 terminal of the socket to chassis (look at the layout on my sketch below)

If it is 12 Volts with the key turned Off or On you have the good version

If 30 is dead with the key Off you have the latter weak version

As the bikes age the grease inside the switch goes hard and tends to hold the contacts apart increasing the contact resistance

Pull the ignition switch apart and clean the old grease out, replace it with nice fresh Vaseline and it should crank ok for a few years

OR

Re-wire it like Chuck did his Scura and never have to worry about cranking again. (unless the magnets drop out of the Vaelio which they have been known to but not because of the wiring)

An added bonus for re-wiring is the way the starter seems to work much better or at least it has no delay between button push and whir. I have actually measured the time difference, the former 1999 is 3 times as fast.

To prove this take 3 feet of wire with a spade connector on one end, plug it onto the starter solenoid spade terminal and touch the other end on the battery.

WARNING - make sure the bike is in neutral and for extra safety pull the clutch in or the bike will leap out of the garage LOL

 

 

 

[Locky]

Wow, Im quite overwhelmed with the help-Kiwi Roy you are a star - its amazing to another Old Fart like myself how this interweb malarkey can hook guys up from around the planet with the click of a few keys.

I remember as a young lad in the early 70s, trying to source parts for a Kawasaki 350 Avenger 2 stroke twin in Dublin - nothing whatsoever could be had - and I recall getting a Japanese lad I knew in London to write a letter to the Souriua diagnostic company on behalf of a mate of mine looking for parts, which took months. 

Different world

. Im puzzled why Guzzi would persist in manufacturing problems for themselves, Italian bikes have had a dodgy enough  reputation for years from which they have only lately recovered. Then again perhaps the only reason Guzzi have survived the way they are is because they managed the neat trick of ignoring the outside world for so long and somehow managed to keep the factory open.

I will print off my homework and apply myself to it. Much thanks and I shall keep you informed - I really hope the trip to the Isle of Man happens cos its 35 years since I was last there and this is a bit of a Band Back On The Road moment.

Grazie

[docc]

Locky now has a dedicated thread here on V11LeMans.com, courtesy of member: Swooshdave prompting the distracted Moderator to make it happen.

Best regards, Locky! Keep us up on your progress and concerns.

I will think it a success when the images of your Lemans at the Isle of Man post! 

[nobleswood]

Saw my brother last month, and we were day dreaming about riding from his place in Glasgow down to the ferry & over to the Isle of Man for the Classic. Something for us to do before we get too old 

[Chuck]

Dorcia's dad maybe wasn't the sharpest crayon in the box.. but one time he told me, "If you want to do something, you had better do it before you don't want to any more.

At the time, several years ago, I didn't truly understand. I do now.

[Locky]

Thanks again to all you guys -Im finding it hard to grasp all the techy side of this forum being a Luddite on the keyboards - social media and all that stuff is kinda for a younger generation - I grew up in a world where if you wanted to catch up with a mate you went to the pub where he drank - and telephones were nailed to the wall in the same places.

So pardon me in advance if there are patches in the conversation - just been out in the shed tinkering with the Guzzi-the more I look the more I find that needs a little fixing - found a very loose bolt on one fork leg just now - managed to refit a pair of clip-ons that were on the bike but now the master cylinder snags the fairing but we can fix that before I hit the boat.

One of the clock rubber mounts is bust too - thought they were a bit wobbly - theres 38000 miles showing on the bike now and a few rattles I don't remember from my time owning the beast. Then again nostalgia is a bit blind and a few loose bits here and there is kinda par for the course with V twins no?

I repurchased the bike over the phone sight unseen so was a bit silly expecting the same old bike it was 7 years ago-but I am determined to get it back to a shinier state with the hope of doing a few trackdays before my bones give up on me altogether. Used to race a bevel Ducati 750 back in the early 90s and have tried to keep doing a few trackdays every year just to scratch the speed bug-my son has a 916 we used on the track for years though this year he decided it was getting too valuable to risk wrecking on the track.

So the current plan is to proceed at a more sedate pace on the Guzzi - probably 40kgs heavier and a modest power output but Im a fair bit more sedate myself now.

Will keep you guys posted on the run to the Island. 

Ciao for now and many thanks again.

Locky

[Locky]

Update on" Guzzi goes to the Manx-" bike now with doctor for fettling/wiring - hope to collect this Saturday - boat from Belfast on Sunday morning - travelling in buddies camper with 3 bikes on trailer as the Isle of Man Steam Packet company want a small fortune to ship the bikes on their own - shipping company also referred to as the Steam Racket Company. Also saves piling furniture on the bike as the gear travels in the camper.

Have further technical question for you guys - where can the flange for the rear shock adjuster be sourced? Currently held on with 2, ahem, zip ties. Now that works but has no class so the right part would look so much better. Also another thought flitted across my mind, should I expect some issues with ethanol and a plastic fuel tank at nearly 18 years of age?

Will try to post a few piccys of the bike and Monas Isle - going to the Island without a bike is a bit like going to a bordello with a chastity belt on. First went back in 1975 and from then to 1984 attended regularly - highlight was seeing Mike Hailwoods return in 78 on a Ducati,  when he was so unfancied and written off as a has-been but proceeded to spank Hondas arse - great moment.

Ciao

[docc]

Thanks for keeping us up, Locky! Can't wait the piccys and stories!

Shooshdave was right (again ), this topic deserves its own thread.  (I changed the title to your own words.)

Your questions are good ones:

1)The "flange for the rear shock adjuster" (if I understand) is shown on Page 01 of the Parts Catalogue. It is parts 11-16 to complete the package. Check with Teo Lamers, Guzzibits, or your local Moto Guzzi dealer (whatever that means . . . )

11     Plate - - - -     GU01557930 /1 each
12     Hose clamp - - - - - GU02107300 /1 each                  (This is the metal "bail" that holds the reservoir.)
13     Screw - - - - -   GU98230616  / 2 each
14     Nut M6x1 - - - - - GU92630106 / 2 each
15     Rubber protection - - - - - GU29105860  /1 each       (You might-could do without "Rubber protection," but common wisdom says it is worth the extra trouble . . . )
16     Washer - - - - - GU95000206 / 2 each

 

2) Yep, ethanol fuels are unfortunate for the Nylon tank. Try not to store the V11 for long periods of time with ethanol. Other precautions and remediations are within the discussions on these forums and elsewhere. Not the least of which is "How to get your expanded tank back on the frame once off" . . .
 

[Locky]

Further update to the Manx trip - sadly we have decided to pull the plug on our little jolly to the  Island as the wife of one of the original planners has taken a serious downturn in  her very long battle with cancer and we all felt this wasn't the time for boats bikes and beers - the Island will always be there.

Have had the Guzzi doctored and was to collect the beast today but domestic stuff cropped up so now its the morning(Sunday) - we have a little break in the Irish Summer rain for a few days so the hope is to cram in a few miles getting to know the old thing again.

Will try to remember/remaster the art of sticking photos into the ether and send a few - its not a show bike but I have a few ideas for the cosmetics(doesn't everybody)

Ciao for now.

[docc]

Thanks for letting us know, Locky. Our hearts are with you and we hope you'll keep us in your loop.

Riding my V11 has always given me those needed moments of solace and renewed strength. It's connection to such a vast community of kind and caring folks is no small part of that.

Best, docc

[LowRyter]

Lockey best to you, the team and the lady battling health.  The Isle will be there next year.  We'll always be wishing you on.