My New V11 Greenie!

[Kane]

Just now, Mikko said:

I can't remember if the standard suspension on the Greenies are adjustable. It would be a good idea to spend some time with either a friend who knows how, or visit a sport bike shop and have them help you tune the suspension i.e. sag, spring preload and get her dialed in. You really would be impressed how a properly tuned V11 can handle. 

You mean like this?:

 

[docc]

13 minutes ago, Mikko said:

Oh yea, there is your compression and rebound adjustment, not sure where or if you have the ability to adjust spring preload. DOOOCCC!?!?!?!?!

Yeah, all the V11 have adjustable spring preload on the rear shock (forks are internal spacers), but it's hard to get to. I seem to recall it helps to take the airbox off (which means tank off). Then the Catch22 is, how do you set your sags without the weight of the tank and airbox? Also, realize, the original shock (and fork) springs are stupidly soft; a huge contributor to early reports of high speed weave on the RedFrame Sports. Plan on getting the right springs for your weight, gear, and style of riding. This pays MAJOR dividends!

Unfortunately, the Marocchi damping is not so great.  Guzzi Moto and others have done some cool internal things to make a difference. Otherwise, don't expect twisting around on the stock adjusters to make much difference. The change in damping is not linear. From Peter Verdone I learned that 50% of the "clicks" is 75% of the available damping (75% turned in can be up to 95% of the damping!).

Suspension set-up, along with tire and tire pressure selection, transform these V11!

[docc]

Oh, and also we know that the typical SpineFrame Guzzi is weight biased to the rear 43/57 %.

So, weighting the front with sag setting, spring selection, and correct preloads does a world of good. I ended up with the rear raised and triples dropped on the forks about 5mm.

As Joey Dunlop once replied when asked how he could ride the way he did, "Arse ooop! Head dooon!"

[Kane]

40 minutes ago, Mikko said:

......Always thought selling it was a mistake....

 

That’s how I feel about my ‘75 850T and my ‘61 Triumph pre-unit Bonni. What was I thinking??? 

[docc]

1 minute ago, Mikko said:

So there is no front spring preload tweaking on the stock forks? Hmm... then I’d be looking Into a Cartridge kit. Maybe a better rear shock. But those are all upgrades you can do at your pace as time and experience dictate. 

Changing damping, even changing to cartridges, would not make up for incorrect spring rates or alter the preload, AFAIK.

The only preload adjustment for the forks is the length of the internal spacers. When I got my Traxxion Dynamics springs, they nailed the preload length the first time.

[Chuck]

Quote

uspension set-up, along with tire and tire pressure selection, transform these V11!

Wat Docc sez.

[leroysch]

1 hour ago, docc said:

Yeah, bud, like Lowryter sez, "Just ride it" . . .

I approached tanking my take off (2004 V11) for the first time with some trepidation after reading others experiences. FWIW, turned out it was NBD getting it back on. 

[JBBenson]

What Docc said. Spend money on new springs and valves up front, (Todd at Guzzitech did mine) get a longer shock for the back, maybe 10mm longer than stock (my stock was 278 so I got a 290 with +-5mm) and get an adjustable one: Hyperpro, Penske etc.

Raise the fork tubes a bit above the top triple, start with 5mm.

Also, contrary to conventional wisdom, put a 170 on the back. Many suggest dropping to a 160 but I found after new suspension front and back that the 170 settled everything nicely.

[luhbo]

Couple of suggestions from my side:

Get rid of Shinko, buy tyres. Avon, too,  aren't tyres btw. (unless you're doing American highways only)

Check the regulator for a solid ground connection. Measure voltage between the reg housing and an engine bolt with the engine running (because of the lazy red light). Don't touch the hot headers when doing this. Add an additional cable if necessary.

Check the fork stops. A fork touching the tank is not a fuel problem, usually that is a crash damage.

Don't change the fork height, don't lower the triple clamps. The KR (Greeny) is short framed. Lowering would negatively affect stability and ground clearance (side stand and cans). Depending on your weight the front already sits too low anyway.

Don't buy progressive front springs or special cartridges. The springs are useless, right so any cartridges or special valves. The V11 came sufficiently equipped for everydays' leisure use right from the factory. In its days it was rather advanced in fact.

Don't be too afraid of tank swelling or actual gas qualities. Over here we have 10% ethanol fuel as well but no one talks about swollen tanks.

[footgoose]

39 minutes ago, luhbo said:

Couple of suggestions from my side:

Get rid of Shinko, buy tyres. Avon, too,  aren't tyres btw. (unless you're doing American highways only)

Check the regulator for a solid ground connection. Measure voltage between the reg housing and an engine bolt with the engine running (because of the lazy red light). Don't touch the hot headers when doing this. Add an additional cable if necessary.

Check the fork stops. A fork touching the tank is not a fuel problem, usually that is a crash damage.

Don't change the fork height, don't lower the triple clamps. The KR (Greeny) is short framed. Lowering would negatively affect stability and ground clearance (side stand and cans). Depending on your weight the front already sits too low anyway.

Don't buy progressive front springs or special cartridges. The springs are useless, right so any cartridges or special valves. The V11 came sufficiently equipped for everydays' leisure use right from the factory. In its days it was rather advanced in fact.

Don't be too afraid of tank swelling or actual gas qualities. Over here we have 10% ethanol fuel as well but no one talks about swollen tanks.

So, what is your tyre brand preference and what are your thoughts on rear spring mods?

[LowRyter]

15 hours ago, Mikko said:

So there is no front spring preload tweaking on the stock forks? Hmm... then I’d be looking Into a Cartridge kit. Maybe a better rear shock. But those are all upgrades you can do at your pace as time and experience dictate. 

I went through some suspension business on my Greenie.  It gets a little weave when around 80 with HB Jr saddle bags.  I screwed around with the rear shock, got it rebuilt (external clicker didn't work) and heavier spring.  Not a big difference IMO.  What I finally discovered was I had the fork set too stiff.  The adjusters make a huge difference on the front.  If it's stiff, it makes the front "bounce" and not compliant.  So when I put the bags on, I soften the front, I can stiffen the back but it seems to do little.  I know it's a little counterintuitive to actually soften the bike when loaded but the saddle bags are big and behind the rear axle.   So keep the rear stiff and front soft.

So, my advice:  1) make sure the adjusters work on the shock and forks.  2) If they do, adjust them and you'll be surprised how you can dial it in, especially on the front.  

I keep a small screwdriver in my tank bag, so I can easily adjust the forks  I move the adjusters in tandem in the same direction.  I usually keep it in the middle range but put it quite soft when I load the back of the bike with saddlebags.  Actually, I keep it in a "sweet spot" now and it seems to work 80% of the time.

 

Now for tires.  As mentioned I've known folks that have ridden Shinkos for years.  I've never heard a complaint.  I'd just ride them until they were worn or if they felt squirrelly (doubtful IMO).   I'd keep the 170 on the rear, it's another reason the bike feels to agile. 

[po18guy]

I note that my ''04 Ballabio has distinctly limited steering lock. Makes U-turns quite interesting and something to practice. At full lock, there is at least 12mm/ one-half inch of clearance between forks and tank. Could it partially be the slightly longer frame?

Suspension adjustments can make a huge difference. Due to too many back surgeries, I softened the rear dampening and it made quite a difference - but do one adjustment at a time and ride it.

[docc]

Correct: LongFrame don't tank touch like the RedFrame and Rosso Mandello can.

[luhbo]

8 hours ago, footgoose said:

So, what is your tyre brand preference and what are your thoughts on rear spring mods?

My tyre brand preference is Dunlop, because they're even older then Avon, I think Mr Dunlop invented the tyre entirely himself. Beat that!

No, in fact I tried these Avon 3Ds mentioned by Mikko as soon as they came on the market, alas was more then unhappy with them. They felt stiff, undecided, especially on wet roads they left me totaly on my own. This was so already when new and it just got worse. They acceptably performed on hot days only and on hot tarmac. Acceptably.

The Dunlop RoadSmart III are my actual favorit because they are predictable and quick and stable right from the first meters (practically) and they keep this nice attitude over the whole distance, 9000km this is. I just feel safe on them, in every weather.

About the rear shock: I had mine reworked, a different spring and an adjustable pretensioner was added. Sorry, got no details about the spring. The shop owner, a former technician from Corte&Cosso, once a name like Oehlins in the cross business, said that these ZF/Sachs shocks are of good quality and need only minor modifications to perform really well. I'm quite satisfied with this mods. Don't overtighten the rear mounting bolt (it has a safety nut, you won't loose it) and keep the eylet greased (a little WD40 from time to time) to prevent the inner steel bushings from rusting and the eyelet will last forever (as its owner, of course). The original spring was a bit stiff for single use. I think the new one is softer, even when it's shorter because of the pretensioner

While you ask for suspension details: I like my bike as soft as possible (starting always from soft/open) and want the riding height with enough sag (I need 20mm additional preload in the forks for that, btw). In my eyes sag is the most important thing for relaxed road holding, especially at the rear end. Years ago riding height and sag/preload was good for a longer discussion here. Was a good thread IIRC.

And sorry now for highjacking the 'My New Greeny' thread

[footgoose]

Wouldn't call it a hijack luhbo, it's all relevant to Kane's query. And, I sure don't want to start a tire thread here. There are plenty of good tires. It's just not the usual for me to hear negative ratings for Avon, and I was curious, as I respect your input here. I have Roadsmart 3's on the Sport Nero at the moment, and like them very much. Avon's on the Tenni, though they came 'newish', but not fresh, from my parts bike, so that and the frame differences to the red frame, make a comparison unfair. First time for Avon on this bike, and they work well for me.

I'm with you on the front springs, mine (red frame) work well for my needs.  Does raising the rear with a longer shock create the same instability conditions as lowering the tubes in the clamps, or is that different geometry altogether? I raised the rear on my R1100s to accommodate a 180, and did see an improvement. Thanks

and thanks to Kane