Scura clutch

[footgoose]

Chuck, I have a complete 6 spd dual plate clutch from an '03, as well as a complete oem Tenni (Scura) clutch in boxes on the shelf if any measurements or comparisons are needed. The actuating push rod for the single plate is in the bike so I can't get to that.

 

 

[Chuck]

19 minutes ago, footgoose said:

Chuck, I have a complete 6 spd dual plate clutch from an '03, as well as a complete oem Tenni (Scura) clutch in boxes on the shelf if any measurements or comparisons are needed. The actuating push rod for the single plate is in the bike so I can't get to that.

 

 

Thanks for that. He's on top of what will work now. The problem is, he can't find *any* 6 speed input hub. 

[docc]

Took a bit of looking, but Scud posted an image of the two different input hubs side-by-side. (The entire thread by sp838 is very informative regarding the RAM clutch.) Can a twin-plate hub actually be turned into a single-plate style hub by having it machined?

[Pressureangle]

Once upon a time I bought a lightened flywheel set for my '85 LM1000. It was well-machined and well-balanced. 
There was little discussion and a bit of a brusque brush-off when I pointed out that my stock flywheel was much thicker than the received part. "No difference, been using them forever with zero issues". Now the clutch gets hot and creeps in traffic when the thinner plate warps from heat. It's almost as if Mother Goose knew there was some issue with harder riding and improved the part. C'est la Vie on me, I guess. Then after a couple hundred miles the painted on timing marks disappeared. Oh well. 

Then there's another guy, who contributes endlessly to the knowledge of the community without asking anything in return, in contrast to the one who claims expertise but never says anything that someone isn't paying for. 

The end

[PJPR01]

Not long after I got my Scura a few years ago, I took it over to Mike at MPH here in Houston.  He was able to source a steel single plate flywheel to replace the stock aluminum one, which although it didn't have any spidering or cracks, sounded quite hollow when tapped.  Not sure if they all do that, but based on everyone's recommendation here, changing out that time bomb seemed like a good idea.

Now...I know that Mike had to play with the length of the shaft I"m guessing, if I recall correctly he had a few conversations with Pete on how to machine this down...Pete can add specifics...but after a bit of time, Mike had it sorted.  

The only difference I can tell between the stock and replacement is that the clutch lever grabs immediately upon release, I mean there is no play at all and the clutch grabs right away, which took just a bit of getting used to, but the bike is silent, no clatter and shifts like a DREAM!  

I recall Mike had mentioned that he had thought it would be almost a plug and play swap, but it did take some fiddling to get it to work, maybe the flywheel was thicker.  I'll have to ask him one day...since the bike runs like a scaled cat,  I haven't had to take it back.

On the other hand, related to another thread I had posted on, I finally got the new spark plug wires put on...WHAT A DIFFERENCE...bike is much smoother, and it was running well before, so imagine how pleased I am to see such a simple upgrade produce a noticeable result.

Now if I could only find a spigot that work, mine always leaks just a bit, I think the internal mechanism with the filters, circlip and other contraptions just doesn't seal well.

[footgoose]

2 minutes ago, PJPR01 said:

Not long after I got my Scura a few years ago, I took it over to Mike at MPH here in Houston.  He was able to source a steel single plate flywheel to replace the stock aluminum one, which although it didn't have any spidering or cracks, sounded quite hollow when tapped.  Not sure if they all do that, but based on everyone's recommendation here, changing out that time bomb seemed like a good idea.

Now...I know that Mike had to play with the length of the shaft I"m guessing, even if I recall he had a few conversations with Pete on how to machine this down...Pete can add specifics...but after a bit of time, Mike had it sorted.  

The only difference I can tell between the stock and replacement is that the clutch level grabs immediately, I mean there is no play at all and the clutch grabs right away, which took just a bit of getting used to, but the bike is silent, no clatter and shifts like a DREAM!  

I recall Mike had mentioned that he had thought it would be almost a plug and play swap, but it did take some fiddling to get it to work, maybe the flywheel was thicker.  I'll have to ask him one day...since the bike runs like a scaled cat,  I haven't had to take it back.

On the other hand, related to another thread I had posted on, I finally got the new spark plug wires put on...WHAT A DIFFERENCE...bike is much smoother, and it was running well before, so imagine how pleased I am to see such a simple upgrade produce a noticeable result.

Now if I could only find a spigot that work, mine always leaks just a bit, I think the internal mechanism with the filters, circlip and other contraptions just doesn't seal well.

Just to be clear PJ, only the flywheel was replaced? You reused the single plate clutch components but with a new flywheel? If this is the case, please get the recipe from Mike! We need the specs. This option could be quite valuable to those who still run the alm flywheel. Prior to finding and installing a RAM unit in my Tenni, I held out hope it could be fixed the way yours apparently has been.

[PJPR01]

I believe so...but I'll double check again with Mike this week, let me confirm details so I don't unintentionally mislead anyone here!

[pete roper]

17 minutes ago, PJPR01 said:

Not long after I got my Scura a few years ago, I took it over to Mike at MPH here in Houston.  He was able to source a steel single plate flywheel to replace the stock aluminum one, which although it didn't have any spidering or cracks, sounded quite hollow when tapped.  Not sure if they all do that, but based on everyone's recommendation here, changing out that time bomb seemed like a good idea.

Now...I know that Mike had to play with the length of the shaft I"m guessing, if I recall correctly he had a few conversations with Pete on how to machine this down...Pete can add specifics...but after a bit of time, Mike had it sorted.  

The only difference I can tell between the stock and replacement is that the clutch lever grabs immediately upon release, I mean there is no play at all and the clutch grabs right away, which took just a bit of getting used to, but the bike is silent, no clatter and shifts like a DREAM!  

I recall Mike had mentioned that he had thought it would be almost a plug and play swap, but it did take some fiddling to get it to work, maybe the flywheel was thicker.  I'll have to ask him one day...since the bike runs like a scaled cat,  I haven't had to take it back.

I know Mike also re-used the original single plater out of the Scura RC for one bloke who was adamant that he wanted to retain the single plater.

The steel flywheel option is, I believe, based around utilising a heavily lightened version of the single plate flywheel that was used on early Hydro Cali 1100's in 2002/3. These unfortunately had really shitty friction plates that tended to wear out in a few hundred miles. In fact there was actually a recall I believe?

As to what had to be done to them to lighten them and what friction plate/material should be used I have no idea but if you can find one of those take-off clutch/flywheel assemblies it would probably be a good starting point.

Pete

[PJPR01]

That sounds familiar Pete now that you mention the Cali 1100, I believe that's probably what Mike did, I"ll have to confirm then if he was able to use my original friction plate and other items or had to source a matching pair for them as well.

Do you recall from the conversations with Mike any other useful bits around this conversion he did for my Scura that would be helpful for the forum members here, I'm sure it was highly technical between two Guzzi Gurus, so I won't pretend to know exactly what was done, I was just very happy with the end results.

[pete roper]

No guru hood here, I prefer being a fat, drunken disgrace. Sorry, but that's about the sum total of my knowledge on the issue but if I do remember anything else I'll haul myself out of my alcohol fueled stupor and if my DT's allow it I'll type up an update......

[PJPR01]

No chance of that Peter!  Your advice and guidance has aided many a Guzzi rider...deeply grateful for the help over the years.

i had a visit with Mike at MPH today to inquire about getting some Norge maintenance done that I am not setup to do at home (swing arm bearing greasing and alternator belt replacement), ..and got some further clarity on what had been done to the Scura clutch, and to take advantage of the lovely weather to get a nice 150 mile ride in today...

Indeed it was the lightened Cali single plate steel clutch that Mike put into my Scura, but it also involved getting the friction plate from the Cali as well, and the only other modification Mike remembers doing was putting a small ball bearing in the clutch slave cylinder, as he mentioned that without that the clutch would grab even with the clutch lever pulled all the way in.  Odd solution, but seems to work...As I've mentioned above, the clutch grabs immediately upon releasing the lever, so there's no play at all like in most clutches, but it works just beautifully.

I guess this is one alternative for folks to pursue if you can find that rather elusive combination of flywheel/friction plate and are patient enough to do the ball bearing trick as well, or perhaps there's another alternative available.  If folks have other more technical questions, let me know as I'll be down there again on Friday to drop off the Norge...

 

[docc]

Interesting! So, the added ball bearing effectively lengthens the clutch push rod?

[pete roper]

That would be the aim. I'd think if one was to do it on a regular basis it would be worth cutting a rod the correct length. That would probably need a bit of experimentation. It is one of the few disadvantages of hydraulic clutch activation, the lack of a cable which is easily adjustable means that tolerances of parts like a clutch pushrod are far more critical.

[Lucky Phil]

For reference to anyone thats interested when I installed the RAM single plater on the Daytona engine and fitted up the gearbox I measured the distance between the gearbox actuating piston and the face of the flange that the slave cylinder bolts to and compared it to the 2 valve motor and gearbox with the twin plate clutch. The difference was around a little less than 1 mm from memory. I just wanted a reference to make sure we were in the ball park. If someone needs to know the exact dimension difference between the two I can measure it again.

The clutch releases fine on the new engine/gearbox assy static but engages closer to the bar than the old clutch.

Ciao  

[Chuck]

Thanks for that, Phil.. I'll relay the info to Mark.