Track bike

[Gmc28]

I see a lot of you have track bikes and/or experience, and since you’re guzzi owners you’re probably also more likely to be like minded for what i’m thinking about.... 

i’ve Done just a little track riding in the past, and never on a real track bike.  Been thinking about picking up a used bike that i can primarily use on the track. But here’s the thing that makes it different than the typical “best track bike” question:  i don’t care about “winning”, or having having the fastest bike, and likely won’t Actually do much track riding in reality.  That could all change, so the option to bail and just sell the bike, or sell it to upgrade to a more competitive machine is always an option should things develop that way later.  But i was thinking about combining the desire for a reasonable occasional-use track bike, with the desire for something thats just fun to have and tinker with, like an older Duc SS, or something along those lines.

the “young” Duc848 is what most comes to my mind, but they’re still not super cheap from what i’m Seeing.  Wondering how an older 749, 748, or some other SS or similar would be on the track, to just carve some nice turns on a tighter track (less speed, more corners).  The Duc would fall into my comfort zone for maintenance, i’ve Had a number of them, and of course i like the sound :->   

I loved my ST4, and thought about grabbing an ST4 or ST3 because they’re cheap and have nice power plants, but that long wheelbase made for nice touring but not so great for flicking side to side.   

curious as to thoughts on what some of you have owned and had on the track, along those lines..... something truly biased toward the track, with some “personality” (= italian), and relatively affordable.  Not interested in anything bizarre... yes, a BMW RT can in fact carve a nice turn on the track, but not interested.

[LowRyter]

I've known a few folks that have purpose built track bikes and all from totalled Japanese bikes, SV-650, 500 Ninja, GSX-R series.

They're cheap, reliable and have lots of aftermarket support and bodywork.  Donor bikes are pretty cheap at the auction or Craigslist.  The exception I know about is a fellow in the Ducati club and he runs a new $20k Duc 959 Panigale Corse on track that he rides on the street as well.  But it's not a dedicated track bike.

[Lucky Phil]

36 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

I've known a few folks that have purpose built track bikes and all from totalled Japanese bikes, SV-650, 500 Ninja, GSX-R series.

They're cheap, reliable and have lots of aftermarket support and bodywork.  Donor bikes are pretty cheap at the auction or Craigslist.  The exception I know about is a fellow in the Ducati club and he runs a new $20k Duc 959 Panigale Corse on track that he rides on the street as well.  But it's not a dedicated track bike.

Yes thats me, my primary track bike is a GSXR1000 K7 (2007) I use that for Phillip Island and secondary Island bike is a Ducati 1198. My 2003 Ducati 1000DS at the small and tight Broardford track. The Suzuki and the 1198 would be too much bike there.

My advice is to go for a second hand Japanese 600 thats had cosmetic crash damage and fit it up with race glass, good tires and a muffler. It will be a way faster track bike than you are a rider and will take a beating with almost zero maintenance. The very last thing you want to be dealing with on a track day is doing any type of mechanical work on the bike. At most some basic suspension adjustments. You want to be totally focused on the riding and enjoying the day not the bike and the best way to do that is with a Japanese bike, plus you wont be crying if you crash it. No emotional attachment,its just a tool. Just like a pro racer:) 

Ciao

[Gmc28]

Ya, the Japanese 600 was the original plan.  But there’s a decent chance i won’t get to go much, so am looking to see if there’s a bike that would do fine at the track, but also be something i’d Not mind pulling out on a sunny sunday now and then if it doesn’t get its blood (oil) pumping on a track day, and something i’d Be fond of having in the shop.

i know about anything can go on the track, so maybe i’m Just chasing my tail in trying to find the right “hybrid”.  But phil, you’ve got that 1000DS... thats a neat machine, and is along the lines of what i’m Thinking about.  

[Lucky Phil]

26 minutes ago, Gmc28 said:

Ya, the Japanese 600 was the original plan.  But there’s a decent chance i won’t get to go much, so am looking to see if there’s a bike that would do fine at the track, but also be something i’d Not mind pulling out on a sunny sunday now and then if it doesn’t get its blood (oil) pumping on a track day, and something i’d Be fond of having in the shop.

i know about anything can go on the track, so maybe i’m Just chasing my tail in trying to find the right “hybrid”.  But phil, you’ve got that 1000DS... thats a neat machine, and is along the lines of what i’m Thinking about.  

Yes the DS is a nice bike and I've used it a few times at Phillip Island as well as the tighter Broardford. I've done a few mods to it as well. Its a nice ride and a favourite of mine although they are a bit over geared. 

Ciao

[80CX100]

As much as I'd love to race a bike, there are a bunch of valid reasons I don't; but I have spent a fair amount of time around the track volunteering with the VRRA, so take my opinion with a grain of salt and that in mind.

Find out what bikes/classes racing clubs are active in  your area, it's no use setting up a full size modern race bike, if most of the races locally are smaller or vintage classes.

For myself, as much as I'd love to have one of my big guzzis out on the track, I know that much weight and power would get me in trouble, I'd much rather throw around a light weight single or as someone already mentioned Ninja EX500 (great race track rep). It can be more fun to ride a slower bike fast.

Dependable, tough and easily repairable/cheap would be my prime considerations, race bikes go down, it's a fact of life, not the type of thing I'd like to do to one of my guzzis or a real nice Ducati.

If you're intending to do real racing and not just track days, it usually makes much more sense to buy a race bike that is already built and prepped, imo.

Whatever you decide, don't skimp on protective gear. If any of the clubs hold racing schools, the riders seem to get a lot out of them, it not only improves their skills and confidence, but they are so much more comfortable and seem to have more fun out on the track, fwiw.

Good luck with it, I envy you, they all look like they are having a blast out there!

Kelly

 

[Scud]

Have you thought about a Triumph Daytona 675? Maybe an MV August F4? Older versions of both of those are quite reasonable (especially if if they've been laid down and scratched up). They are different enough to be distinctive, but still enjoyable on the street. I have ridden both those bikes on the street and enjoyed them both. If I was going racing, I'd start with a smaller bike, like the Daytona. The F4 is amazing bike, but I think it is way too much power for first time on the track. I could not use all the power on the street either, but the sound is glorious.

[Gmc28]

Good thoughts kelly, and more or less what I’m thinking.

Scud, the triumph idea is a great one. And I’ve looked for an excuse for years to have an Agusta, but it’s mostly my lower brain stem yearning for it.... and I may give in.

As mentioned, I’m not looking to “win”, but just to be good enough to have some fun. Some friends are regular track guys, and despite the allure that just won’t be me. Just want carve some nice turns.
The wife had a multi 620 when those first came out. It was a hoot. Too much front end dive with that tall suspension, but incredibly quick, to where I could comfortably average higher speeds through well known twisties in my area than I could on my larger/more powerful ST4. Speedo error as a possible factor, I would clearly hold higher speeds through turns on the 620 than on the st4.
I always assumed that extra height and front end dive would make it not-so-great on the track, but I see how quick those super Motos go through turns and it makes me wonder.

[Lucky Phil]

7 hours ago, Scud said:

Have you thought about a Triumph Daytona 675? Maybe an MV August F4? Older versions of both of those are quite reasonable (especially if if they've been laid down and scratched up). They are different enough to be distinctive, but still enjoyable on the street. I have ridden both those bikes on the street and enjoyed them both. If I was going racing, I'd start with a smaller bike, like the Daytona. The F4 is amazing bike, but I think it is way too much power for first time on the track. I could not use all the power on the street either, but the sound is glorious.

I've owned 3 MV F4's, 2 750's and a 1000. Such a work of art and one of the few bikes that look better with the bodywork off than on. Well to an engineering type that is. TIG welded frame( newer are now MIG welded unfortunately) and even the smallest unseen bracket is designed with form and beauty in mind.

The only issue with them is that they are a bit susceptible to frame damage on the cylinder head mount where it wraps around head in a low side crash and the cost and availability of parts. Early models also ran very hot especially in traffic to the point of overheating but the unfaired street fighter  versions seemed to be ok in that respect.Oh the riding position is quite extreme as well for the road.       

Ciao

[LowRyter]

Heck, a ham fisted no skill guy can run any kind of pig around a track.  So long as you're having fun and have no shame.

 

 

The session just before the front brake line let go.  I hate when that happens.

[Scud]

Phil - do you have any experience with the MV F3s? Some of those are affordable, but I have heard mixed reviews.

[Lucky Phil]

8 minutes ago, Scud said:

Phil - do you have any experience with the MV F3s? Some of those are affordable, but I have heard mixed reviews.

Sorry Scud, none whatsoever. What issues do they have?

Ciao 

[Scud]

I don't know the specifics - just heard a few MV owners saying to avoid the F3 because it has problems. I haven't really looked into it myself as I figured if I ever really wanted an MV that I would get an early F4 with round pipes. There's a newer (square-pipe) F4 in my garage right now - not mine, but I have the key. It's so gorgeous... 

But I hear the Triumph Daytona triple is a good, solid machine.

[Lucky Phil]

2 hours ago, Scud said:

I don't know the specifics - just heard a few MV owners saying to avoid the F3 because it has problems. I haven't really looked into it myself as I figured if I ever really wanted an MV that I would get an early F4 with round pipes. There's a newer (square-pipe) F4 in my garage right now - not mine, but I have the key. It's so gorgeous... 

But I hear the Triumph Daytona triple is a good, solid machine.

All my MV's were the early round pipe bikes with the TIG welded frames. They are absolutely beautiful engineering and go pretty well. Mine were kept in my lounge room and when I was single every woman I brought home was shocked to see a bike in a lounge room. After their first encounter though they all then completely accepted it as part of the furniture. 

Still wish I had my 1000 but I'm still friendly with the woman that bought it off me about 10 years ago and she still has it.

I owned 3 triumphs in the past,one of the original Speed Triples and 2 of the later aluminium framed Daytona's. The ST was a pretty basic,weighty and top heavy old bus but ok. Both Daytonas were of a quality that in the end I wasn't willing to accept considering they cost more than the equivalent Honda at the time. Honda are my benchmark for mass produced motorcycle quality. 

I got to know Triumph pretty well from a technical aspect back then as I also knew people that were racing them and preparing them for racing and I wasn't that impressed. Having said all that it was OMG 20 years ago now that I count back and from what I can gather the the current triples are very good things. The current Moto2 engines are basically a bored out and hotted up version of the 675 triple. 

ciao

 

[Lucky Phil]

3 hours ago, LowRyter said:

Heck, a ham fisted no skill guy can run any kind of pig around a track.  So long as you're having fun and have no shame.

 

 

The session just before the front brake line let go.  I hate when that happens.

What you want for a track bike is one you're not bothered about crashing and a bike that is so much better than you are that your total concentration and focus is on doing the actual riding and working on improving and enhancing your riding technique and skills.

You also dont want something that's so fast it scares you, or is too heavy or has significant shortcomings you need to compensate for. Its all about the riding not the bike.

Losing the brakes doesn't seem to full fill at least one of my  criteria

Ciao