2001 V11 Sport - starting / battery issue

[gsp0702]

So I was away for a couple of weeks and as a precaution disconnected the battery, came back checked the battery and it seemed to have a reasonable level of charge in it. connected it back up, key in the ignition turned it on all the lights come on click on the start button, loudish clonk noise all the lights go of,and nothing turn it of and on again one of the relays makes noise like a siren, so replaced that but still no joy on starting.

My charger indicates battery is charged, fuses in the fuse box under the seat look good, are there any other fuses elsewhere in the loom say under the fuel tank or somewhere, as the engines been out recently I was expecting the earth connections to be clean and sound, only other thing worth mentioning would be it's had a new stator fitted  last month.

From other posts as it's a 2001 bike, startus interruptuse shouldn't be the issue.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[po18guy]

Battery. Do a specific gravity test. Betcha' its a goner.

[MartyNZ]

Kiwi Roy offered good advice here: https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20229-its-time-service-your-battery-terminals

All the electrical problems on my V11 were caused by poor connections. Tarnishing or corrosion between the cable terminal and the battery post or gearbox ground point for example. This is fixed by cleaning the contact faces of the terminal and the face of the thing it touches, or unplugging and replugging a connector. This fix can be made permanent by applying grease/vaseline/dielectric grease to the joint before assembly, then tightening the connection. The grease squeezes out to allow a good electrical contact, and prevents air or water causing more tarnishing or corrosion.

Fitting a new battery or earth strap can cure a problem that could be cured by just making the connection faces of the old parts shiny again.

[Chuck]

I always load test the battery with my cheapy Harbor Freight load tester before starting troubleshooting that kind of problem. I'm *not* saying that is your issue, but it is the root of many electrical issues.  I've seen battery charges lie through their teeth, and say, "Oh yeah.. that battery is fine.." they should look for work in the political arena.

Quote

noise like a siren,

My best guess is the starter has dropped a magnet..

[griswoia]

I had this issue.  Put in a decent ground strap. 

I installed a new battery, relay and starter.  All these gave minor improvements.  One $9 ground strap and it spins like a Japanese top.  The stock wiring harness uses three small gauge wires to some frame tabs....  Garbage.  I installed one proper cable from battery neg to the top starter mount bolt and FIXED FOREVER.

 

Amazon link to part I used.

 

TOPDC 4 Gauge 36-Inch Battery Inverter Cable All Copper Conductor Wire with 3/8" Ring Terminals (4 AWG x 36 Inches) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K68YO5W/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_tUemEbQJFWMGJ

[gsp0702]

Thanks guy's plan is to get the battery load tested today, and then move from there, would be probably if it was the battery as it's the simplest option. But my luck recently with the V11 would suggest not. 

[griswoia]

Dude run a real ground for a quick test.  Super easy and might well surprise you.  Bundle like three med gauge wires together and run from neg terminal to the block and try cranking.

 

[docc]

Unfortunately, there is no pulling specific gravity on the V11 AGM battery.  Check the battery's date code and series of voltage tests to consider whether it may respond to "conditioning." Done properly, with correct charging voltages for the AGM, these can be remarkably resilient (speaking of the OEM Hawker Odyssey  PC545):

 

[po18guy]

5 hours ago, docc said:

Unfortunately, there is no pulling specific gravity on the V11 AGM battery.  Check the battery's date code and series of voltage tests to consider whether it my respond to "conditioning." Done properly, with correct charging voltages for the AGM, these can be remarkably resilient (speaking of the OEM Hawker Odyssey  PC545):

 

D'oh! Really hard to get that tube in their for an electrolyte draw! Load test is the only way. 

The lesson seems to be: do not disconnect the battery unless you want to 1) replace the battery, 2) replace/rebuild the starter, 3) replace or disconnect, clean and re-tighten all cable terminals, or 4) all of the above.

Let sleeping Guzzis lie?   

[gsp0702]

Knackered battery, new one fitted and all good. Thanks for your assistance cheers andy

[Chuck]

Like I said.. many esoteric electrical problems are nothing more than a dead battery. Get yourself a load tester. They're cheap. (Guzzi content)

[docc]

Learning, and practicing, correct AGM conditioning works wonders. Lots of folks don't and get along "just fine", but why ignore the manufacturers recommendations?

Biggest two faux pas are using a low amperage "trickle" charger at a voltage below the AGM threshold, 13.5-13.8v (Odyssey states this is damaging), and letting the battery drop below 12.65 volts (85%) before charging it with a minimum of 6 amps to the 15 volt termination threshold.

(voltages are at 25ºC/77ºF. Temperature correction charts for AGM are available and also displayed in that lengthy "conditioning" thread.)

[Lucky Phil]

36 minutes ago, docc said:

Learning, and practicing, correct AGM conditioning works wonders. Lots of folks don't and get along "just fine", but why ignore the manufacturers recommendations?

Biggest two faux pas are using a low amperage "trickle" charger at a voltage below the AGM threshold, 13.5-13.8v (Odyssey states this is damaging), and letting the battery drop below 12.65 volts (85%) before charging it with a minimum of 6 amps to the 15 volt termination threshold.

(voltages are at 25ºC/77ºF. Temperature correction charts for AGM are available and also displayed in that lengthy "conditioning" thread.)

Docc for the second time my battery has leaked. After the original one leaked I wired the headlight direct with some mini relays to bring the reference voltage into line fitted a new battery and checked the charging rate and it was fine. When I pulled the battery to fit the new engine I noticed it had started to leak again( luckily I had placed some absorbent material into the battery rubber tray) I have now fitted a new regulator I had laying around as the old one did show some signs of heat damage to the epoxy back around the wiring area. Do you think my keeping the bike on a trickle charger has caused this or my not conditioning the new battery or a faulty reg or all of the above?

Ciao   

[docc]

17 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Docc for the second time my battery has leaked. After the original one leaked I wired the headlight direct with some mini relays to bring the reference voltage into line fitted a new battery and checked the charging rate and it was fine. When I pulled the battery to fit the new engine I noticed it had started to leak again( luckily I had placed some absorbent material into the battery rubber tray) I have now fitted a new regulator I had laying around as the old one did show some signs of heat damage to the epoxy back around the wiring area. Do you think my keeping the bike on a trickle charger has caused this or my not conditioning the new battery or a faulty reg or all of the above?

Ciao   

 This is a well framed question. In clinical practice, I find the vast majority of conditions are "multicausal." This has been my experience with most issues with the Sport, as well. So, it is easy to say, "all of the above."

(These charging parameters apply to the OEM "Spark500" which is the OdysseyPC545 AGM) . . .

A simple series of voltage tests, with a quality DVOM, can be revealing. 

> Check the "float" voltage of your "trickle" charger. If it is not within the  specified range (especially if it is the commonly low 13.16-13.2v), Odyssey states the battery will be damaged.

> Check running charge voltage at "some rpm". If it is over 15volts, the regulator is cooking the battery. Ideally, the charge voltage should be 13.8-14.2v (above idle).

> (Even newly purchased) batteries below 12.65volts@25ºC/77ºF should be "conditioned" (discharged and charged through several cycles at the correct AGM voltages and with over 6 amps until the voltage remains stable [12.65 - 12.84v full charge] over days to weeks.) Expecting our V11 charging system to bring a new, but rather dead, battery up to full state of charge is like asking your girlfriend in a G-string to scrape the ice off your windshield. She might do it once, but there is gonna be a price to pay . . .

> Lots of the early V11 let the seat down onto the battery. In our local vernacular, that would squoze-out the insides. Usually this is visible inspecting the underside of the seat pan and the topside of the battery/battery strap. Solutions? Relieve the sharp and offending edges of the seat pan with a Dremel® or such and/or lower the battery basket under the subframe instead of on top.

[Lucky Phil]

9 minutes ago, docc said:

 This is a well framed question. In clinical practice, I find the vast majority of conditions are "multicausal." This has been my experience with most issues with the Sport, as well. So, it is easy to say, "all of the above."

(These charging parameters apply to the OEM "Spark500" which is the OdysseyPC545 AGM) . . .

A simple series of voltage tests, with a quality DVOM, can be revealing. 

> Check the "float" voltage of your "trickle" charger. If it is not within the  specified range (especially if it is the commonly low 13.16-13.2v), Odyssey states the battery will be damaged.

> Check running charge voltage at "some rpm". If it is over 15volts, the regulator is cooking the battery. Ideally, the charge voltage should be 13.8-14.2v (above idle).

> (Even newly purchased) batteries below 12.65volts@25ºC/77ºF should be "conditioned" (discharged and charged through several cycles at the correct AGM voltages and with over 6 amps until the voltage remains stable [12.65 - 12.84v full charge] over days to weeks.) Expecting our V11 charging system to bring a new, but rather dead, battery up to full state of charge is like asking your girlfriend in a G-string to scrape the ice off your windshield. She might do it once, but there is gonna be a price to pay . . .

> Lots of the early V11 let the seat down onto the battery. In our local vernacular, that would squoze-out the insides. Usually this is visible inspecting the underside of the seat pan and the topside of the battery/battery strap. Solutions? Relieve the sharp and offending edges of the seat pan with a Dremel® or such and/or lower the battery basket under the subframe instead of on top.

Thanks docc I'll check my charger when I get the bike back together. It's possible to that the old reg might have been charging ok when cold but not when hot maybe. I'll check the seat base as well,good tip.

Ciao