andreani front kit

[stewgnu]

So we’ve been blessed with some gorgeous cool, dry days hereabouts.  So i finally put a fresh angel on the back, and fiddled with her.

The andreani fork kit feels really tight.  so planted- i’ve never done a track day but i bet these’d be good in that scenario.  Roads round here are every type- all radiuses, up, down, fast, slow, smooth, bumpy. The front feels grand but took tweaking on the c and r to ride it all well.

The only thing I’d like, and was hoping for, was that lovely floaty feeling over ripples that you get on great suspension.  I can’t seem to get this kit to do that as yet.  The preload is near the minimum, c and r  at the lower end too, but still feeling so tight.  Superb at speeds over say 40-50 but seem to be lacking finesse below that. Apart from the lack of dive.

The tyres though... These angels are just ace.  Best i’ve used anyway 🙂

So I’ve been tearing about like a loon, and happy enough... £400 happy?   hmmm... i rode her with the marzy springs for ages, and rode the snot out of her without a problem really, i spose she was due fresh springs sooner or later anyway...

[Lucky Phil]

I'd love to install a set but they dont make them for the pre 2001 models which was when they went from the old style damper rod to cartridge design and I'm not sure I want to risk the outlay without knowing if the earlier forks can be modded to suit.

Ciao

[stewgnu]

I was wondering whether the ballabio forks are the same as the sport units?

[68C]

My Rosso Corsa has never had that floating feeling, perhaps just the nature of the beast.  The only really odd thing I have with handling is on one road on the way to work, just after a double 90° bend over a bridge I get a real kick from the rear suspension.  Driven over it loads of time in my car, no problem, no obvious bump in the road.  Also no problem with my Triumph Trident 900.

[stewgnu]

maybe the shaft?  i’ve noticed she can ‘kick’ a bit off small potholes at certain speeds when accelerating.

Is it not possible to fit the later front end onto the early models?  different headstock?

[nobleswood]

I'm abit confused here; I thought all the V11, non Ohlins, bikes had damper rods forks. Admittedly I haven't pulled the forks apart & my opinion is based on the fact that there is no compression adjustment on the lower fork bracket.

[68C]

3 hours ago, stewgnu said:

maybe the shaft?  i’ve noticed she can ‘kick’ a bit off small potholes at certain speeds when accelerating.

Is it not possible to fit the later front end onto the early models?  different headstock?

Interesting idea,  I am not aware of any defect with mine.  I thought the idea of the V11 suspension as opposed to the Tonti bikes was no torque reaction lifting or lowering the swing arm.

[nobleswood]

I might have to go out to the shed & open my forks to look just to satisfy my curiousity......looked in the manual instead & confirmed these are damping rod forks. 

Stewgnu, don't know if I missed your thread on putting the cartridges in? 

Did you measure the sag to determine if the spring rate was correct for you ? How much do you weigh ? What spring rate do you currently have ?

£400 seems like a great deal. I paid about that much to rebuild the Showa forks on my Griso with new valves, shim stack, wipers & seals.

Did you have a look at what the shim stack was on your new cartridges before intalling them ?

[stewgnu]

15 hours ago, 68C said:

Interesting idea,  I am not aware of any defect with mine.  I thought the idea of the V11 suspension as opposed to the Tonti bikes was no torque reaction lifting or lowering the swing arm.

Well mine does have a bit of slop in the rear drive, not sure if they all do?  Maybe we’re talking different points 

[stewgnu]

12 hours ago, nobleswood said:

I might have to go out to the shed & open my forks to look just to satisfy my curiousity......looked in the manual instead & confirmed these are damping rod forks. 

Stewgnu, don't know if I missed your thread on putting the cartridges in? 

Did you measure the sag to determine if the spring rate was correct for you ? How much do you weigh ? What spring rate do you currently have ?

£400 seems like a great deal. I paid about that much to rebuild the Showa forks on my Griso with new valves, shim stack, wipers & seals.

Did you have a look at what the shim stack was on your new cartridges before intalling them ?

So sorry Nobleswood- I didn’t compile a thread, i feel i lie somewhere around the lower end of knowledge on this forum!  In hindsight I should have done so.  I could certainly give what little help I’m able if anyone wanted to attempt the job.  I removed the whole lot and stripped and cleaned before re-installing.  One thing I didn’t do was replace the seals, which may have been a mistake, but the current ones are working just fine so....

One other error i made was not to specify a spring rate from the suppliers.  They just sent a set out without checking too.  The springs were stamped ‘9.3’ and they confirmed that that was ok for me in the end.  I weigh about 67kilos or 10 and a quarter stone ish.

I have never done a sag test in my puff.

[nobleswood]

Stewgnu,

Suspension is my current motorbike study area these days & as the kid with a new interest I'm asking everyone about that subject & often asking the  questions as well.

There are many books out there that illuminate the subject but my current read & recommendation for clearly explaining the subject is 'Total Control' by Lee Parks. Another useful source on YouTube is Dave Moss Tuning.

Here on V11LeMans we have members who know there stuff as well, amongst others LuckyPhil & GuzziMoto.

Here's a good writeup by Scud, look who the second post is from...

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20132-setting-suspension-sag/

You've treated yourself to some top notch stuff, give it a chance to work as it should. Hell we've got the time now !

Mind you having another mate helping to measure ain't going to happen at the moment 

Edited March 25, 2020 by nobleswood
Realised my own stupidity !

[GuzziMoto]

I don't know about all of the V11's, but I know the wife's '00 V11 has cartridge forks. It is not a completely sealed cartridge, it has bleed holes that allow the oil to bypass the piston that moves up and down inside the cartridge. But technically it is a cartridge fork. As mentioned before, if you block off one of the bleed holes on the cartridge body and force more oil to go through the piston valving you can get better control over the suspension movement.

The linkage for the rear drive box is supposed to separate the torque of the rear gears and it's rotational effect from the suspension movement. So getting hard on the gas doesn't make the rear suspension try to extend. But it doesn't mean the rear suspension works perfectly. The shock can still have issues, and the massive weight of the rear drive box hanging on the end of the swing arm also adds it issues. A normal chain drive set up has much less weight on the far end of the swing arm, making life for other shocks much easier.

It has been a very long time since I had a set of V11 forks open. But I find that if you take it apart it is easy to see how it works. From there you can figure out how to make them better. That is what I did many years ago.

Setting sag should always be step one in setting up suspension. Make sure your race sag (my term for the sag with the rider on board) is right. Then check the free sag (my term for how much the bike sags under its own weight without the rider on board) is where it should be. Usually free sag should be around 10 - 15 percent of total travel when race sag is set to 30 - 40 percent of total travel. If free sag is too much that means your springs are too stiff, where as too little free sag means your springs are too soft.

[docc]

I followed up until here, "If free sag is too much that means your springs are too stiff, where as too little free sag means your springs are too soft. "

That seems reversed to me. 

(No doubt, getting the Sport's suspension set-up improved has been the single greatest thing ever for my V11.)

[68C]

You can't get much past Docc.

[GuzziMoto]

19 hours ago, docc said:

I followed up until here, "If free sag is too much that means your springs are too stiff, where as too little free sag means your springs are too soft. "

That seems reversed to me. 

(No doubt, getting the Sport's suspension set-up improved has been the single greatest thing ever for my V11.)

That is the right order. If your springs are too soft, you will have to crank in the preload to get the sag right with the rider on board. This excessive preload will cause the free sag, how much it sags under just the weight of the bike, to be too little. 

Where as if the springs are too stiff you will have a minimum of preload resulting in too much free sag under just the weight of the bike.

It can seem backwards, but it is right. It is all based on you adding the required amount of preload to get the race sag, the amount of sag with the rider on the bike, correct to start with. The amount of preload required will affect the free sag, and thus show you if your springs are too soft, too stiff, or just right.