Timing Gear set

[docc]

45 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

If you look at my how to post on installing the gears I used the metal gasket and did the front seal while I was there as you suggested. The most noticeable thing initially after installing the gears was the need to reduce the idle by 200 rpm as after the gear install it was idling high. Less friction and drag? maybe.

Ciao  

More accurate and stable timing signal and valve timing, maybe?

Dunno, but y'all-boys had me feeling my sloppy chain the whole time riding today . . .

Guzzichondria strikes again.

[docc]

It feels like as long as the chain is in tension from the motor accelerating, she pulls awesomely. Stellar. Try to just roll along at some singular rpm and she hiccups like the St. Vitus Dance the Veglia speedometer used to do.

While I would prefer to be accelerating all the time, it is not always possible. Or permissible.

(Always planning my 200.000 kilometer service interval. I even noticed a little wet spot on the timing chest to get me more worked up . . .  . . . OOOH! A LITTLE WET SPOT! BETTER GET SOME CARUSO GEARS! )

[Pressureangle]

2 minutes ago, docc said:

.  . . . OOOH! A LITTLE WET SPOT! BETTER GET SOME CARUSO GEARS! )

The gears will actually give you a bigger wet spot.

[docc]

On 7/13/2021 at 9:05 PM, Scud said:

^Act Now.

Here is Joe's website:

https://woodburymotomedia.com/moto-guzzi-timing-gears-by-joe-caruso/

All the contact details are there.

 

email sent to Joe.

[Lucky Phil]

On 7/19/2021 at 9:19 AM, docc said:

It feels like as long as the chain is in tension from the motor accelerating, she pulls awesomely. Stellar. Try to just roll along at some singular rpm and she hiccups like the St. Vitus Dance the Veglia speedometer used to do.

While I would prefer to be accelerating all the time, it is not always possible. Or permissible.

(Always planning my 200.000 kilometer service interval. I even noticed a little wet spot on the timing chest to get me more worked up . . .  . . . OOOH! A LITTLE WET SPOT! BETTER GET SOME CARUSO GEARS! )

It doesn't quite work like that docc if I get your meaning here.

Basically the tension on the cam chain doesn't vary between on and off throttle, the forces on it don't reverse. It's not in tension when on the gas and slack when off the gas. It's more a case of in tension on the gas and off the gas and more tension or load when accelerating due to increased valve train loads and friction. You're never in a situation where the cam chain loads are reversing, it's more or less load situation but always in the same direction under normal running conditions. In some ways the tensioners job is easier at higher rpm than at idle depending on the engine configuration.

The reason for the throttle hick at steady state only is the same as the reason you don't always feel the dip in an engines torque curve you see on a dyno because you accelerate through the area fairly quickly. Same as areas where the jetting/mapping is slightly off, if it's in an area you accelerate through briefly then it doesn't get noticed or is of no operational consequence. So the reason for the 2800-3200 rpm hick up I think is in this area there is a combination of related factors that come together under certain circumstances with regards to mapping and environment and if you ask the engine to operate in that area in a steady state under the right conditions you will get the effects. Even under the right conditions if you dont hang around in that rpm/load area but just ride through it same as the torque curve dip it in effect becomes a quickly transitioned area as the engine accelerates that isn't felt. Combined that with the fact that when you accelerate through the area you are probably using a throttle opening that doesn't equate with the problem anyway.

If I still had the 2 valver fitted I'd change the ignition advance in the area I pointed out earlier and then see the effect which might take a while for all the environmental stars to align. 

Ciao

 

 

[docc]

Yah, the wisdom of spending $1000US on my eight-hundred-dollar Sport begs the sanity question. I'll ask the other inmates on the ward if I'm really crazy.

Cleaning up the map looks like good method, and actually not that difficult, it seems. Those points in the table where the advance suddenly jumps 20º look ungood, if not absurd or alarming.

[Scud]

Yes, you are crazy. And so are the rest of us inmates. 

You know what else is crazy? Buying a new motorcycle, barely riding it, and then selling it for $2,000 less than you paid. So buying a set of gears is only half as crazy as that.

If you want to feel sane, you just have to compare yourself to someone crazier than you.

[Lucky Phil]

16 minutes ago, docc said:

Yah, the wisdom of spending $1000US on my eight-hundred-dollar Sport begs the sanity question. I'll ask the other inmates on the ward if I'm really crazy.

Cleaning up the map looks like good method, and actually not that difficult, it seems. Those points in the table where the advance suddenly jumps 20º look ungood, if not absurd or alarming.

Well docc you can deduct the cost of a new cam chain, sprockets and tensioner from the cost of the gears because it's probably about due for those.

I learned about 25 years ago that values are relative after one of the guys at worked scoffed at the cost of my new motorcycle when he heard what I'd paid for it, around $16,000 from memory. I remember thinking at the time, this guys passion was his 60' motor cruiser that cost about $150000 at the time to buy and $1000 to fill with fuel another $5000 a year for mooring fees and it got used about a dozen hours a year. Go figure values out. 

I sometimes look at my bikes and wonder what people in maybe 50 years time when I'm long gone think about the owner that made all these modifications? I always liked reading about old bikes from the early part of the last century that were uncovered with loads of enhancements from some long dead previous owner that loved the thing. A lasting legacy for others to wonder about one day maybe.

Ciao    

[docc]

Valid point to see the cost relative to the factory parts. I could not find the cost of the Valtek tensioner to include. This makes the extra few hundred dollars seem absolutely sane. I knew I could count on my fellow inmates on the ward.

GU01054500  Timing System Gear              $298.77

GU14072001   Pinion                                        139.96

GU28058060  Chain                                          70.35

GU30057810  Chain Tensioner                         68.76

GU30147700  Oil Pump Gear                           138.18

                                                                                     $686.02 USD

 

 

[po18guy]

2 hours ago, docc said:

Yah, the wisdom of spending $1000US on my eight-hundred-dollar Sport begs the sanity question. I'll ask the other inmates on the ward if I'm really crazy.

Cleaning up the map looks like good method, and actually not that difficult, it seems. Those points in the table where the advance suddenly jumps 20º look ungood, if not absurd or alarming.

Maybe bragging rights under a transparent timing cover...

[Lucky Phil]

37 minutes ago, po18guy said:

Maybe bragging rights under a transparent timing cover...

Never cool, too much "look at me" going on there. Better the warm inner knowledge you are a man of quality, distinction and elegance and have no need to descend into tawdry displays of engineering opulence. The nod and a wink is all thats required.

Ciao    

[guzzler]

Ha ha

So if an Aussie addict were to enquire as to the cost of said gears....what are we looking at?

Cheers Guzzler

[pete roper]

Well, you'd go to a currency converter on the interwebs and ask. ???

[ScuRoo]

9 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

The reason for the throttle hick at steady state only is the same as the reason you don't always feel the dip in an engines torque curve you see on a dyno because you accelerate through the area fairly quickly. Same as areas where the jetting/mapping is slightly off, if it's in an area you accelerate through briefly then it doesn't get noticed or is of no operational consequence. So the reason for the 2800-3200 rpm hick up I think is in this area there is a combination of related factors that come together under certain circumstances with regards to mapping and environment and if you ask the engine to operate in that area in a steady state under the right conditions you will get the effects.

Sorry LP - the confident delivery of your supposition is admirably clear but it’s still as much of a good guess in identifying the hick “cause” as a blind man in a dark room looking for a cat that isn’t there.

Not actually saying you’re wrong - just saying you haven’t found it.

[Lucky Phil]

33 minutes ago, ScuRoo said:

Sorry LP - the confident delivery of your supposition is admirably clear but it’s still as much of a good guess in identifying the hick “cause” as a blind man in a dark room looking for a cat that isn’t there.

Not actually saying you’re wrong - just saying you haven’t found it.

All true. Didn't actually mean to sound like I have the definitive answer here it's a considered opinion only.

Interestingly a lot of Einstein's theories were the result of what he called "thought experiments" as mankind didn't have the technology to prove his theories at that time. It's amazing how many are being proved correct now we have the technology to be able to run a physical experiment and measure the outcomes.

The 2800-3200 rpm hiccup is the LP "thought experiment"

Can't give an Einstein guarantee though. 

Ciao