Guzzi/Aprilia engines by Piaggio

[Lucky Phil]

Didn't realise this.

http://www.engines.piaggio.com/one-new.asp?id=11

Ciao

[docc]

I wish these sorts of pages had date stamps on them. When was that V9 introduced, like five years ago?

[Chuck]

test rode a new new one at the Oregon Nationals in '16.. the AeroLario would take it..

[rosso corsa]

6 hours ago, docc said:

I wish these sorts of pages had date stamps on them. When was that V9 introduced, like five years ago?

It says "05/11/2015" on the page?

PS: the page has not been updated since 30 Nov 16. They must be very busy developing new engines...

[LowRyter]

Looking at the line of "new" Guzzis is a pretty sad site.   I suppose the last sporty one was the Griso.  

[docc]

2 hours ago, rosso corsa said:

It says "05/11/2015" on the page?

PS: the page has not been updated since 30 Nov 16. They must be very busy developing new engines...

Silly me, I totally missed that prominently featured date.

Anticipation builds whether Moto Guzzi will show us anything at EICMA, just four to five months away, for the upcoming centenary (other than the Guareschi  specials and parts from recent years) . . .

[Lucky Phil]

3 minutes ago, docc said:

Silly me, I totally missed that prominently featured date.

Anticipation builds whether Moto Guzzi will show us anything at EICMA, just four to five months away, for the upcoming centenary (other than the Guareschi  specials and parts from recent years) . . .

Me too. I'v been waiting for the latest model bevel drive 750ss to hit the dealers floors. Now I know why I've had 45 years of disappointment .

Ciao 

[pete roper]

5 hours ago, LowRyter said:

Looking at the line of "new" Guzzis is a pretty sad site.   I suppose the last sporty one was the Griso.  

Sadly yes. It now seems that Moto Guzzi are going to be condemned to making two wheeled Toyota Camry's for eternity. I suppose they'll be able to sell lots of accessories though like jars of beard pomade and ugly t-shirts with crossed spanners on them and similar junk.

[Chuck]

"I'm a Dapper Dan man.."

[biesel]

I wrote in another thread that I was impressed by the V85TT engine/gearbox. This engine should be used for all smal block Guzzis.
Will we ever see a new 1100 or even 1200 ccm engine?
 

[GuzziMoto]

2 hours ago, biesel said:

I wrote in another thread that I was impressed by the V85TT engine/gearbox. This engine should be used for all smal block Guzzis.
Will we ever see a new 1100 or even 1200 ccm engine?
 

I suspect it will be used in all the future small block Guzzi's. That is why they made it, to comply with emissions regs. Give them time, it will become the small block motor.

It is a step in the right direction, a better small block. But it is way short of where it should be.

I am not very optimistic about a larger displacement performance engine from Guzzi. And that is too bad. It seems to me they could borrow some of the design work from Aprilia and create an amazing Guzzi motor. Imagine a sideways V4 in a Guzzi, or even a sideways V2 using the old 990 V2, using the cylinder and head design from the Aprilia motor but in a new crankcase that turns the engine sideways. I would have to buy one of those, in a sporty chassis. But alas, we get a warmed over small block.

[68C]

Touring motors seem to be getting bigger, sports motors smaller.  There were a lot of 1000cc V twins around before the second world war, took another fifty years for them to come back.  Cost of a V twin construction killed them in the first instance.  Difficulty in getting real power from them now  is the limitation.  Ok, Aprilia can do it but with motors that are a little fragile.  A friend bought a wrecked Tuono motor to strip for spares, a rod had gone, everything was useless, both heads smashed valves, the rod even punched a hole into the gearbox to chew on the gears.  To be fair the clutch would have been usable but oddly it did not come with the motor.

[Lucky Phil]

3 hours ago, 68C said:

Touring motors seem to be getting bigger, sports motors smaller.  There were a lot of 1000cc V twins around before the second world war, took another fifty years for them to come back.  Cost of a V twin construction killed them in the first instance.  Difficulty in getting real power from them now  is the limitation.  Ok, Aprilia can do it but with motors that are a little fragile.  A friend bought a wrecked Tuono motor to strip for spares, a rod had gone, everything was useless, both heads smashed valves, the rod even punched a hole into the gearbox to chew on the gears.  To be fair the clutch would have been usable but oddly it did not come with the motor.

largely true for the British although remember the Vincent came back post war and the Europeans were making plenty withing 25 years or so after they recovered from the war. It's hard to make judgements like this for a number of reasons primarily because of the economic dislocation after WW2 esp in Britain. Money poured into Europe to rebuild and hedge against the Russians and Communism and Britain had a war debt to pay the US.

Having said all that the British motorcycle manufacturers were totally hopeless post war in just about every way, from production, to economic management. All the money went on Oak lined board rooms, Company Roll Royces and big salaries for the management instead of R&D and new machinery.

Remember the Japanese didn't have any problems with construction costs producing the Honda 4 in the late 60's early 70's from a clean sheet when the British were pumping out twins whose designs dated back to the 50's and before and the Americans were making Harleys still. 

I've owned 3 Aprilia V twins ( all RSV1000's. 2 R's and a std RSV)  and been inside them a few times including club racing bikes and they are bullet proof. If it blew up to that extent I can pretty much guarantee you it was an owner/operator issue.

As for real power a Ducati Panagale makes close to 200 HP. A de-tuned one making 150 would be pretty docile for a sports tourer if they had the inclination.

Ciao 

[knumbnutz]

I don't think too many modern motors designed and built in the last 20yrs are unreliable. The 90's saw leaps and bounds in quality of everything as manufacturing quality and materials improved. I think Guzzi would really need to redesign their engines - all of them - to truly have a new motor. Apart from the 1200's, all their engines are more of an evolution than a new design and even the 1200 is too similar to be completely new as such. That V10 water cooled engine would have a good start.

I look at say the 92 Fireblade as a good ground breaking example  of what they should be aiming for. A capable fast sport bike but without care for engine capacity that fits a class, nor top end speed or power.  A lot of manufacturers do this now, they have homologated sportbikes and then other sporty bikes ie: 635 kawasaki,  Tuono, VFR/VTR, RF900, streetfighter etc

  

[Nihontochicken]

It appears that Guzzi under the auspices of Piaggio has very limited R&D funding and a loss of sense of direction post V11 and MGS-01.  Some of the ensuing small block bikes have a small bit of the old LeMans flair, but certainly not the performance.  The large block entries have been a styling disaster as well as technically disappointing at times.  It may be that the air cooled big cylinder has become an anachronism in the modern emissions world.  If water cooling is now technically mandatory for good performance, then the reason for the traditional MG layout goes away (two jugs sticking out in the breeze at a 90 degree included angle that provides good primary balance).  And seeing the problems that have occurred in both the MG and airhead BMW drive lines, I'm not convinced of the supposed maintenance ease of a shaft versus chain final drive (a chain and sprockets of decent metallurgy and fully enclosed by an easily removable thin metal or plastic envelope would likely last nearly as long as a shaft drive and certainly be cheaper to manufacture and easier to service).  Of course, a big twin with a chain final drive is the domain of Ducati, on which MG is unlikely to trespass.

I'd like to believe that MG will still come out with a new, large capacity sport bike in the spirit of the LeMans, V11 and MGS-01, but I sense that they don't have it in them any more, alas.