Map Day

[Randy]

Decided it was the day to play with maps and tuning. Did the Decent Tune Up route a few weeks ago and valves to 0.007/0.009", idle bypass full closed.

Coppa with Ti mufflers and front crossover.

I've not been able to match the map up on it with anything out there, ran decently except for the occasional 3k blip and stubborn cold start.

First up was Meinolf's 2017.08.31_#93_6. Cured the cold start issue, fired up right off. Set idle to 1100 rpm and went for a ride. Huge improvement at 4-5000 rpm up. Only problem was 3k rpm cruising, stumbling and missing like crazy. Roll on a little and it would go away.

Next was V11 IAW 15M ECU Titanium 2 from the file uploads. I'm assuming this is the stock bin as described, if anyone can compare it to a stock Ti bin to confirm I'd appreciate it. Cold start was good, without changing the idle screw the idle was now up to 1400 rpm from 1100, thought that was interesting. 3-4000 rpm 6th gear roll on was a little better than Meinolf's, 4-5000 rpm was almost as good.  3k cruising and it never missed a lick.

I'm going to stick with the Ti bin for the time being, very happy with it.

Two questions I'd like answers for:

1. What's the difference between the two that accounts for the difference in idle speeds without changing the idle set screw?

2. Why did Meinolf's stumble so much at 3k but the Ti didn't? This really surprised me since I'd read nothing but good about it. Maybe the valve settings?

 

 

[NicoNZ]

Following this. I am going to do the Meinolf's map change soon. I already have a 3k stumble that I was hoping this map would solve. This would be including the full tune process as documented in this forum. Valves already complete. Cafe sport with cored stock pipes and front crossover removed.

Sounds like the V11 IAW 15M ECU Titanium might improve things..........sorry I could not answer your questions or have any input.

[Tomchri]

21 hours ago, Randy said:

Decided it was the day to play with maps and tuning. Did the Decent Tune Up route a few weeks ago and valves to 0.007/0.009", idle bypass full closed.

Coppa with Ti mufflers and front crossover.

I've not been able to match the map up on it with anything out there, ran decently except for the occasional 3k blip and stubborn cold start.

First up was Meinolf's 2017.08.31_#93_6. Cured the cold start issue, fired up right off. Set idle to 1100 rpm and went for a ride. Huge improvement at 4-5000 rpm up. Only problem was 3k rpm cruising, stumbling and missing like crazy. Roll on a little and it would go away.

Next was V11 IAW 15M ECU Titanium 2 from the file uploads. I'm assuming this is the stock bin as described, if anyone can compare it to a stock Ti bin to confirm I'd appreciate it. Cold start was good, without changing the idle screw the idle was now up to 1400 rpm from 1100, thought that was interesting. 3-4000 rpm 6th gear roll on was a little better than Meinolf's, 4-5000 rpm was almost as good.  3k cruising and it never missed a lick.

I'm going to stick with the Ti bin for the time being, very happy with it.

Two questions I'd like answers for:

1. What's the difference between the two that accounts for the difference in idle speeds without changing the idle set screw?

2. Why did Meinolf's stumble so much at 3k but the Ti didn't? This really surprised me since I'd read nothing but good about it. Maybe the valve settings?

 

 

Sorry no answers just another question,  did you confirm the misfiring was on 1cyl or bouth  ?

Cheers tom.

[Randy]

1 hour ago, Tomchri said:

Sorry no answers just another question,  did you confirm the misfiring was on 1cyl or bouth  ?

Cheers tom.

One cylinder. You could actually feel the bike shake in sync with it. It could be that the fuel map for one or the other needs some tweaking.

[pete roper]

Idle speed change will be down to fuel delivery. Leaner mixture=higher idle. If it's an open loop map you could try adding a few points of CO.

[Lucky Phil]

On 7/6/2020 at 11:38 AM, Randy said:

Decided it was the day to play with maps and tuning. Did the Decent Tune Up route a few weeks ago and valves to 0.007/0.009", idle bypass full closed.

Coppa with Ti mufflers and front crossover.

I've not been able to match the map up on it with anything out there, ran decently except for the occasional 3k blip and stubborn cold start.

First up was Meinolf's 2017.08.31_#93_6. Cured the cold start issue, fired up right off. Set idle to 1100 rpm and went for a ride. Huge improvement at 4-5000 rpm up. Only problem was 3k rpm cruising, stumbling and missing like crazy. Roll on a little and it would go away.

Next was V11 IAW 15M ECU Titanium 2 from the file uploads. I'm assuming this is the stock bin as described, if anyone can compare it to a stock Ti bin to confirm I'd appreciate it. Cold start was good, without changing the idle screw the idle was now up to 1400 rpm from 1100, thought that was interesting. 3-4000 rpm 6th gear roll on was a little better than Meinolf's, 4-5000 rpm was almost as good.  3k cruising and it never missed a lick.

I'm going to stick with the Ti bin for the time being, very happy with it.

Two questions I'd like answers for:

1. What's the difference between the two that accounts for the difference in idle speeds without changing the idle set screw?

2. Why did Meinolf's stumble so much at 3k but the Ti didn't? This really surprised me since I'd read nothing but good about it. Maybe the valve settings?

 

 

You just cant load a map without doing the basic work. From memory Meinolfs maps are set up with 150mv and the bypass screws closed and 0.25 valve clearances. I'm not a fan of his clearance figures but that's what he runs. The info is here somewhere on his base settings.

Here's the delta fuel map between a Titanium map and a 2002 std V11 map. Both are Delta maps remember in percentages.

Here's the delta fuel map between a Titanium map and a Rosso Mandello map. Note the different throttle brake points on this one..

Ciao

  

[Tomchri]

5 hours ago, Randy said:

One cylinder. You could actually feel the bike shake in sync with it. It could be that the fuel map for one or the other needs some tweaking.

Why my question ?  Had my 2 ECU's loaded with Meinolf's latest mapping, by him. Did a few rounds with tuning on my Rosso Corsa, and she is running Very good. Did the same tuning on my Greenie ( quite a few times ),  idling perfect and Very strong after 3000. Did buy a new Carb tune,, much better than my Twin Max. BUT from idling up to 3000, she is not happy with the right cyl. So what you are experiencing, had me wondering,, ( again ).  I'm quite sure my tuning is on course,, so coud it be the mapping ? I have a brand new TI ECU, so will try that one, when the weather permits.   

Will report back after the test 

Cheers tom.

 

[gstallons]

What are Carb Tune and Twin Max ?

[Randy]

13 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

You just cant load a map without doing the basic work. From memory Meinolfs maps are set up with 150mv and the bypass screws closed and 0.25 valve clearances. I'm not a fan of his clearance figures but that's what he runs. The info is here somewhere on his base settings.

Here's the delta fuel map between a Titanium map and a 2002 std V11 map. Both are Delta maps remember in percentages.

Here's the delta fuel map between a Titanium map and a Rosso Mandello map. Note the different throttle brake points on this one..

Ciao

  

I had everything except his valve clearances. 157 mv TPS, new plugs, fresh carb balance, bypass screws closed.

[Tomchri]

3 hours ago, gstallons said:

What are Carb Tune and Twin Max ?

Twin Max electronic device for balancing,,,  Carb tune is with manual  tubes and restrictors, I like it.

Cheers tom

[Tomchri]

39 minutes ago, Randy said:

I had everything except his valve clearances. 157 mv TPS, new plugs, fresh carb balance, bypass screws closed.

I have 0.25mm on both valves.  How the H can she run that good after 3000, and so rubbish between 1500 to 3000.  Oh well,, another IPA,, might be some weather tomorrow.  

Cheers tom

[Lucky Phil]

14 hours ago, Tomchri said:

I have 0.25mm on both valves.  How the H can she run that good after 3000, and so rubbish between 1500 to 3000.  Oh well,, another IPA,, might be some weather tomorrow.  

Cheers tom

The factory settings are .1 and .15 and most run .15 and .2 which is within reason. Running .25 on the inlet is +150% of the factory specs. It's all very well talking about CO readings and how well it runs but I'm also concerned about mechanical issues as well and I doubt Meinolf has done a 120,000 miles with these valve settings. It's like tuning a race engine, a lot of the time you need to sacrifice the last few % of performance to aid rideability and reliability.

Ciao    

[gstallons]

Now , lemme get this straight ............ 0.157v at absolute closed throttle blade . Min. idle screw backed out , no choke linkage interference , balance link disconnected . With all this ok , adjust your TPS to 0.157v .

No________ go back through your procedure and make it so . 

If all this is true. Reconnect your balance shaft and adjust your min idle adjustment screw to 0.540v . 

[Meinolf]

Hi,

my valve play recommendation of 0.25mm valve play is based on the measurements done on the V11 camshaft. Less play leads to a much longer period at which the valves are already slightly opened. The effects are loss of mean pressure in the combustion chamber and less time for the valve to conduct heat to the seats. My V11 has run more than 85.000km with this setting.

0.157V as base setting for the TPS is recommended because the ADC in the ECU is a 8bit version. 5V are divided by 256 ($FF), which leads to a step of 0.01953...V. Multiplying this by 8 leads to the 156(.25mV). The 150mV found in the Guzzi literature is wrong, somebody at Guzzi or Marelli made a rounding error. I'm not saying that achieving 156mV is critical, to many factors including the quality of the DMM used come into play. But why not choose the correct value, if it is known, as target.

Cheers
Meinolf

[docc]

I am uncertain, now: Is the TPS baseline target 156 mV or 157 mV?