thread locker

[footgoose]

Doing a front wheel install with new tire today and bolting everything up. The 10mm's on the caliper mounts and the 8mm axle pinch bolts have what appears to be thread locker gunk/remnants in the threads...ok...  but it's grey! I don't know what this is. Does heat change the color? I swapped the wheel out 2 years ago and can't remember what color I used. Surely it was blue? Shirley?

Will use standard torque values for the caliper @45-50nm and the pinch bolts @25-30nm since I can't locate the spec. UNLESS it "feels" too much on the pinch bolts. Sound good?

Also  ... shouldn't there be schnorr's at the pinch bolts? (Ohlins)

[Lucky Phil]

18 minutes ago, footgoose said:

Doing a front wheel install with new tire today and bolting everything up. The 10mm's on the caliper mounts and the 8mm axle pinch bolts have what appears to be thread locker gunk/remnants in the threads...ok...  but it's grey! I don't know what this is. Does heat change the color? I swapped the wheel out 2 years ago and can't remember what color I used. Surely it was blue? Shirley?

Will use standard torque values for the caliper @45-50nm and the pinch bolts @25-30nm since I can't locate the spec. UNLESS it "feels" too much on the pinch bolts. Sound good?

Also  ... shouldn't there be schnorr's at the pinch bolts? (Ohlins)

It's the remnants of Blue Loctite. No Loctite is required on any of these bolts and nor are those poxy schnorr washers, plain washers is all thats required and the fasteners properly torqued with a little anti seize on them.

Ciao 

[footgoose]

oddly enough my first thought at seeing the stuff in the threads was silver anti seize. Heck, it's possible I had this knowledge at some point and it went.

Will proceed as you suggest. ty sir.

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, footgoose said:

oddly enough my first thought at seeing the stuff in the threads was silver anti seize. Heck, it's possible I had this knowledge at some point and it went.

Will proceed as you suggest. ty sir.

How did they come out? like they had thread locker on them? If they spun out easily then it wasnt thread locker. Blue Loctite has a grey colour to it once cured and then removed.

Ciao

[footgoose]

 The caliper bolts were very snug. Not so much the pinch bolts. I think I would have used blue. I'll just clean them this time, with proper torquing. As you've pointed out, nothing's going to fall off

[Lucky Phil]

2 hours ago, footgoose said:

 The caliper bolts were very snug. Not so much the pinch bolts. I think I would have used blue. I'll just clean them this time, with proper torquing. As you've pointed out, nothing's going to fall off

No thats true. When you think about it very little stuff really needs thread locker. All the engine bolts dont have any and dont fall out all the time. If the engineering is right and the fasteners are good quality then the stretch on the fastener does it job. There are always outliers though of course like the nut that holds the oil pump drive sprocket on. The other common reason is if you are fastening down an item made from a soft material like a plastic and you cant achieve the fastener stretch because it would crush or distort the component then you basically undertorque the fastener and the locker stops it loosening. Locker is also good for protecting fastener threads from wearing due to severe vibration and the fastener losing its stretch.  

The automotive world uses thread locker on lots of stuff these days which is pretty much all about litigation protection. To the point where if you read the shop manual they tell you to discard many fasteners and fit new ones and they aren't TTY fasteners either. The reason? because the new oem fastener comes with thread locker already applied. They don't even trust the average mechanic to apply it themselves, on top of the fact its not even necessary 95% of the time.

It was very rare to use thread locker on aircraft components I can say that and I rarely use it on cars or bikes either really. 

Ciao

[gstallons]

if a person wants the "safety" of a thread sealant , you can use an amount of weatherstrip adhesive to the ( clean ) threads on a fastener , allow it to dry and install . with a lot of new parts such as front hub assemblies , they come with new bolts and have an adhesive on the threads . This is a form of Loctite and will keep the bolts from rusting / seizing in the threads . 

 Phil's statement about lawsuits is about as true as it gets as far as keeping things tight !

[Chuck]

Quit calling me Shirley, but that's blue (removable) thread locker that you are seeing. I use it..sparingly.. when I think it will be useful. Most people use way too much.

[Tinknocker]

I learned to be cautious using loctite, the hard way. Manual didn't call for it, but I justified the use because it's a Harley V-twin (Buell) and they vibrate fasteners loose, lost a few lower fairing screws because of it. Didn't make it to torque spec of 45 ft-lbs and the threads pulled out of the cast aluminum threaded hole😫. I reckon the loctite "altered" the friction kinda like oil would, and now the torque spec was too much . Had to helicoil it, and, no loctite this time, lol. YMMV

[gstallons]

Uhhhhhh . 45 ft lbs is about as tight as you would want on a 10mm or 3/8'' fastener . If you need that torque going into aluminum , you need to use a stud instead of a bolt . 

[docc]

19 minutes ago, gstallons said:

Uhhhhhh . 45 ft lbs is about as tight as you would want on a 10mm or 3/8'' fastener . If you need that torque going into aluminum , you need to use a stud instead of a bolt . 

 45-50 Nm = 33-37 ft-lbs should be fine then?

[footgoose]

3 hours ago, Tinknocker said:

I learned to be cautious using loctite, the hard way. Manual didn't call for it, but I justified the use because it's a Harley V-twin (Buell) and they vibrate fasteners loose, lost a few lower fairing screws because of it. Didn't make it to torque spec of 45 ft-lbs and the threads pulled out of the cast aluminum threaded hole😫. I reckon the loctite "altered" the friction kinda like oil would, and now the torque spec was too much . Had to helicoil it, and, no loctite this time, lol. YMMV

I've often wondered if and how thread lubricants might alter torque response.

[docc]

15 minutes ago, footgoose said:

I've often wondered if and how thread lubricants might alter torque response.

During a recent challenge with a spark plug stuck in the head of my BMW ///M roadster, I was surprised to learn that lubricated threads can lower the acceptable torque by one third.

That translates to my having done a lot of significant over-torquing! 

[LowRyter]

The gray stuff I have is anti-seize.  Spark plugs in aluminum heads, muffler fasteners.

[gstallons]

You pull the threads or twist a plug off in the head and you will use anti-seize from now on . I think copper is the anti-seize de jour for Ford products now for spark plugs . All the plugs I install have a smear of anti-seize on the threads .